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MortoHK327 Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 10 July 2024 9:49:23 PM(UTC)
MortoHK327

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Hi all, I’ve been reading up on the 68 HK 327’s, as I’ve just purchased a HK Monaro and have started the research on its history.
Everything seems to add up with the car & numbers. Fairly original, except for a paint job many years back, so my main questions are around the original engine number and if it is possible to find out what it may have been.

The car is Pagewood built/assembled and looks to be a very late 1968 car, therefore I am led to believe that it should have the type 2 McKinnon Industries engine?

I am certainly no expert and very new to this, happy to listen.

The smaller I.D. tag has the numbers: 81837 K H559xxx.

The larger tag has:
Body: 81837KR-003xx-H5 (not sure of the total build number that came out of Pagewood, but surely it couldn’t have been many more than 300-350 odd in 1968?)
Trim: 1153-10X
Paint: 567-1764

The Vin/Chassis is: HK487xxSS
Engine Number is: 327158xxK1028H.
I was told by the seller (who purchased the car over 30 years ago, that he didn’t think it was the original motor, however I have purchased another engine from him with the serial number: 3271xxx0T120730.
I am really trying to find out if the current engine number could possibly be the original engine number.

I know it was approx the 300-350th 327 GTS built & assembly out of Pagewood Sydney and it is Bright Blue Metalic with a Black interior.

Any help/info would be amazing and greatly appreciated.

Kind regards Scott

Edited by user Thursday, 11 July 2024 9:34:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Fix typo’s & protect numbers

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 4:20:52 AM(UTC)
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I’ll have a better look at numbers tomorrow but some of what you have put up has errors:

Chassis number is wrong. Either you have missed a digit or missed the last letter. It will look like HK48785SS, which is what I suspect it will actually be.

The second engine is from a Pagewood assembled Parisienne or Impala, assembled somewhere around early June 1968. The final digit should be a Q not a 0.
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HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 7:55:52 AM(UTC)
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I just went and had a look. Your car is a 1969 build. So it should have all of the bits that went with the Canadian 327, including the GMH specific numbered Quadrajet.

If that engine number isn't the original they got damn lucky getting close. If the dude said it's not the original engine, then it may not be the original engine block, but has been re-stamped with the original number?

As a reference:

H55882x
HK4855xSS
3071588x

You can see by the PSN and chassis number that GTS is built in the 48 hours before your car and its engine number is just below yours. I have lots more either side of it too and yours fits.

If it was regoed in NSW since around 1985 you should be able to do a GIPA application. I did this for my HK GTS and got NSW records back from the early 90's showing its original engine number.

https://www.service.nsw....au/accessing-information
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MortoHK327 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 11:22:42 AM(UTC)
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Hi HK1837,
How many numbers is the chassis meant to be? Looking at various numbers on this site I thought it was 9, so mine being “HK48785SS”? Wouldn’t that be the same as the one you have shown below?

Also, regarding the engine number it is my belief that the seller may have formed the opinion that it was not the original engine, as it had been out of the car & rebuilt before he came across the car (well over 30 years ago)and wouldn’t have looked correct as per the type 1 engine. He also had 2nd GTS 327 in yellow back then and it would have looked different with the alternator on opposite side and the various other odd bits (making it look non-original).

The car came across from Canberra ACT, so potentially at some stage some re-registered as a 68 & not 69. I did notice last night that the steering rack is dated 2nd month 69 which runs a lot closer to the numbers/timing that was previous estimated on this site by Warren Turnbull.

Happy for as much info as possible.
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 1:45:08 PM(UTC)
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Yes, HK48785SS looks better. You had HK487855.

Yes,Feb-Mar 1969 would be pretty close.

Hopefully you still have the rare stuff like the heads, carby, fan spacer, alternator etc.

Those McKinnon 327’s are a bitza. They appear to be cast out of old Saginaw 1969 block design patterns modified for McKinnon (Saginaw changed from 386 to 618 then to 010 during that 17 month “1969 model year” engine production). 4BBL 337 were all done by the end of July 1968, that is why the final batch of 327’s in HK were made in Canada, Tonawanda and Flint had ceased 4BBL 327 production. Only 327’s left for 1969 were the 210hp 327 in Camaro (finished and replaced by 307 around 10/68) and the 235hp 327 in Chevrolet. Both were identical 9:1 327 except the 210hp used the 307 intake and carby and the 235hp used the larger 2BBL intake and carby off the 250hp L65 350.
So McKinnon industries got the job of making a small run of 327 4BBL engines. Used the old 386 patterns, for some reason used 75cc truck head castings (possibly McKinnon were making 2BBL 350 truck engines), used the same crankshaft in the 307/327 used at other engine plants, standard rods and camshaft. Used a Tonawanda 4BBL intake (McKinnon not making 4BBL engines at this time). And I think they were also mismatched exhaust manifolds. McKinnon mustn’t have been making a 307 at the time or they would have used 69cc heads like the Tonawanda and Flint 307 and 327 engines being built for 1969 model vehicles. This is why those HK Canadian 327 are so down on power compared to the Chevrolet engines in earlier HK. The 75cc heads end up about 8.55:1, the 69cc heads are about 9.0:1 (8.75:1 on a 307). On a flat top 350 those 75cc heads are about 9:1 which is what the auto HT-HG 350 engines are (these are same 75cc chambers but are otherwise fuelie head dimensions in ports and valves like the manual 350 engines).

Edited by user Thursday, 11 July 2024 7:13:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

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MortoHK327 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 8:00:28 PM(UTC)
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Thanks again HK1837, how do I go about identifying the heads, carby, fan spacer, alternator etc? Are the head & carby numbers visible? Also where can I find the chassis number on the chassis rail?

If the car has never been rego’d in NSW is there a similar search that can be done in the ACT?, as I know for a fact in was registered there at least in the 90’s.
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 8:41:08 PM(UTC)
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Heads you’ll have to pull rocker covers off, but get a clear photo of the end of the heads and it should be obvious. Same with alternator although I’m not that up on the later GTS327 engine dress, others here will be much better than me like Rigpig for example. Carb’s number is easily visible on throttle side with air cleaner on.

Chassis number is on the firewall on the middle, can’t miss it.

There should be a similar system for the ACT.
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MortoHK327 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 8:47:20 PM(UTC)
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Cheers, will start looking. I have VIN off the firewall, but the old owner said there is one on the chassis rail?
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 11 July 2024 9:13:06 PM(UTC)
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VIN is on the skinny tag on the cowl. Chassis number is on the firewall.
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MortoHK327 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 12 July 2024 9:08:20 PM(UTC)
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Unfortunately the carby is a Holley and not the original, I do have an original one though, so will get that on there soon. Any advice on best spark plugs, leads, dizzy etc
Nefaris Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 15 July 2024 6:34:22 PM(UTC)
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Examine the production record sheets. These records, if available, show the original engine number that was installed on your car at the factory. Sometimes they can be found in archives or specialty car clubs
MortoHK327 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 15 July 2024 8:53:51 PM(UTC)
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I am all ears if anyone can point me in right direction. Any leads would be great.
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 15 July 2024 9:19:03 PM(UTC)
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No such records are known to exist.
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Smitty2 Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 16 July 2024 2:24:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nefaris Go to Quoted Post
Examine the production record sheets. These records, if available, show the original engine number that was installed on your car at the factory. Sometimes they can be found in archives or specialty car clubs



no such things exist.... I have the production broadcast sheets for a number of GM Holden vehicles (inc my current two)
and nope, sorry it will tell you the TYPE of engine fitted (and the trans and diff and trim and options etc) but not the
engine number.

Unlike what Ford did, GM Holden NEVER made the engine number match the chassis or vehicle serial number of the car
Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, 16 July 2024 3:47:19 PM(UTC)
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In addition to what Smitty states, they couldn't make them match. Its not like is was a choice for them and they didn't do it, it was couldn't. Not with a dozen VAP's or whatever it was, from memory: Pagewood, Dandenong, Elizabeth, Acacia Ridge, Mosman Park, Woodville, Trentham, Port Elizabeth, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, Trinidad.

Conversely, they had all of the local engines being built in one place. Sure engines were built on demand but there was simply no way to know what car each engine was destined for so giving them an engine number that had any correlation to the car they ended up in was impossible. Throw into that mix engine imported for local use, or engines built (or imported into) in the VAP location, like the Chevy design 6cyl engines built in South Africa or the Opel design engines imported or built locally for the Asian VAP's. Many already had an engine number, or a partial one. It was simply impossible to to have that ability. In fact GMH never knew what engine went into which car, it was never in their Production Mainframe. The only time it married up, was when dealer information returned to the GMH zone offices to be back entered into the mainframe against the PSN, along with the selling dealer, warranty start month and transmission serial number. This was not always done, and often there were errors in reading the numbers, writing the numbers, translating them, entering the data into an open database, and even sometimes entering the data against the wrong PSN OR creating a new PSN if the record didn't exist, sometimes even overwriting the data already there. If you have ever used a mainframe terminal and database you'd understand how this all happened.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
 1 user thanked HK1837 for this useful post.
Smitty2 on 16/07/2024(UTC)
MortoHK327 Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 19 July 2024 12:56:19 PM(UTC)
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Hi Byron, one of the guys on here said he has a 7029283 with no date code. Would that be the correct carb for my 69HK? My car is running an aweful Holley, however the car came with a new/rebuilt carb 7028213 that was purchased by the old owner back in 2006 that was still in the packaging up until I took it out last night.
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