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Gday Byron,
I got a HJ sandman?? ute, wondering what you think.
built 10-74 AHJ01190M
GVW 2200kg seat cap:2
model: HJ8WN80
body: 454217M
trim: 1890-18V
paint: 568-15953
eng L31 trans M21 raxle GV4
Do you know if the kingswoods came with a seating cap. of 2, or did they have bench seats? as this may help to work out if it could be a sandman.
Also, your website says about studying the tyre placard to help identify a sandman, what do you look for?
Cheers on the work gone into your website.
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Possibly a Sandman. Good engine and box, but there is no guarantees with HJs especially utes and especially Kingswoods. If its a Sandman its an XU3 or a mistake with the GVW. Kingswoods came with bench or buckets. The tyre placard probably wont help you on a HJ, only HZ. Edited by user Saturday, 10 June 2006 7:28:56 AM(UTC)
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If XU3 appears on the body plate, is this proofof a sandman? but this only applies for brisbane built cars.
Because it is such an early built HJ, could the 2200kg GVW have been carried over from the HQ V8 tags?
So there is no sure way of knowing, but it looks like the gts guards are its originals. It also has a 2 vent gts dash which ive never seen before. Has anyone come across these?
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Only for Brisbane examples. Have a look at the HJ Kingswood Sandman ute ID plates on my website. They are off a Brisbane XX7 but still have a 2200kg GVW - something is wrong. Either it should be XU3 or 1950kg.
If it has original GTS guards and dash it has to be a Sandman, exactly like the one on my website. Barring a mistake on the plates its an XU3. |
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Gday Byron
Youve said earlier in this topic that 18V trim on a HX has to be a sandman, is this also the case with HJs?
Also, do you have any idea on the 2 vent gts dash?
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I checked out the HJ plates on your website, the XX7 with GVW 2200, seems like these discrepancies could have taken place back then.
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quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79
Gday Byron
Youve said earlier in this topic that 18V trim on a HX has to be a sandman, is this also the case with HJs?
Also, do you have any idea on the 2 vent gts dash?
In HX 18V is listed as a Kingswood or Sandman, but the more data you collect the more things that break the rules show up, like the early 202 HX ute earlier in this thread. The only HJ Sandmans ive seen with 18V trim are Kingswood Sandman utes. All of the others with black trim have been 19V. Not sure what you mean by twin vent GTS dash? |
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quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79
I checked out the HJ plates on your website, the XX7 with GVW 2200, seems like these discrepancies could have taken place back then.
I have 5 vehicles recorded like this, ie Acacia build with XX7 on the body plate but a 2200kg GVW. They span 2/75 to 9/75. This is a mistake of some sort. How many others there are who knows. Especially the non-Acacia vehicles which have no option stamping on the body plate. Is the VIN on your ute 8N80TEJ454217J? Yours is actually the first Melbourne BODY plated Sandman I have recorded. I have no Dandenong HQ full data recorded and all the rest of the HJ-HZs I have are vans which have an Elizabeth BODY plate, even though they are assembled in Melbourne. Even the two L30, M41 Ewet HQ Sandman prototypes I have recorded are Elizabeth BODY plated with Dandenong VINs. Edited by user Monday, 12 June 2006 12:15:35 AM(UTC)
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Yeah thats the VIN thats on it, how did you know that? it is an early built HJ.
About the dash, i mean it only has the two outer vents, so the gts fascia only has one hole on the drivers side. Where the passenger side vent would normally be on the fascia it has a blank panel, it all looks factory.
Do you have any more info on the HQ Ewets, they where only prototypes werent they?
Cheers
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Hi BigMo79.
Base model HJ/HX/HZs only have the 2 outer vents because they dont get forced air ventilation. The forced air was an extra cost option even on Kingswoods in early HJ.
In other words, the cars with 4 vents on the dash have fan forced air supplied thru the 2 centre vents.
You will notice also the heater control panel is slightly different with the lower lever just having hot & cold positions.
Dr Terry. |
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quote:
Originally posted by BigMo79
Yeah thats the VIN thats on it, how did you know that? it is an early built HJ.
Do you have any more info on the HQ Ewets, they where only prototypes werent they?
Cheers
Once you get to know Holden ID well enough you can either predict what the VIN will be OR when you collect enough ID plate data the cars begin to resurface. In your case check out the BODY number on the BODY plate, and compare it to the PSN (numbers on the end of the VIN). With the Ewet, from what I understand the first one was the Ewet built in 3/72 with VIN 80480QJ318656 (yes it was a Kingswood) and was an L30, M41 with Air and Steer. The second one (5/72 VIN 80480QJ328091) has the identical build details and selling dealer but was Steer and LSD, but I dont know what the second one was built for. |
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quote:
Originally posted by Byron Rich
quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman
Hi Byron - just wondering if you can confirm or deny one for me. Im leaning towards this vehicle not being a Sandman due to trim codes.
model HX8WM80 :
Body NOs 185749-A :
Trim-1890-19V:
Paint- 568-15953 :
Eng L20 :
Trans M20 :
RR Axle GV7
8M80LFL339461X
Thanks
Nick
I had the owner of this van contact me today. It has chassis number AHX00014A, and its a 4/76 build. All areas of the ute apart from the trim code point to a Sandman including the 1860kg GVW and the fact that the original books with it state it was bought as Sandman. Im of the opinion that it has carried over with the HJ trim code either by accident or by nature of the early build. 19V is a common trim code in HJ Sandmans but ive never seen anything other than 18V in a HX Sandman which is reflected also in the HX parts catalogue.
I conversed with Ben Stewart on this one. As it was built in 4/76 (pre HX release) and an Elizabeth HX it has to be one of the promotional vehicles and very likely the vehicle photographed for the HX sales brochure (http://www.sandmanowners.com/pictures/hxsandman/hxsandmanute.jpg). Although 19V isnt correct for a HX Sandman, it is OK for this one as it was built during the HJ model where BLACK (19V) trim was OK for a Sandman rather than SLATE (18V). What a find! Buy it now if you want a HX Sandman ute. |
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Dr Terry,
I suppose i had never seen a gts dash without the forced ventilation before. Ill have to have a look at the heater control. Thanks.
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Byron,
Thanks for all the info.
Looks like the error in the trim code on the HX is another irregularity that looks not that uncommon with these models.
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just wondering how many hz sandman utes were built?
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No records of this AFAIK. However 7 of the 22 HZ Sandmans I have recorded are utes. The ute also stopped production in 3/79 compared to the van in 10/79. |
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Hi Byron,
Care to give us a breakdown of how many you have recorded?
eg HQ ute 17 HQ Van 34 etc
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i just finished respraying my white hz sandman ute and I have heard there was only 3 white ones is this B.S. or what?
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quote:
Originally posted by hx-sandman
Hi Byron,
Care to give us a breakdown of how many you have recorded?
eg HQ ute 17 HQ Van 34 etc
I will when I get a chance. Will take about an hour to add them all up. As for the white HZ ute question, I doubt it. What is the source? I have one Palais white HZ Sandman ute recorded - a 253 4-speed XU3 from Brisbane. |
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hi byron it was 5 white utes not 3 i read it on the car Domain site under clinton shannons holden sandman. Mine was built 2/78 in adelaide L31,M21 VIN;8M80THL406618Z.I got it in brisbane about 3 yrs ago, Im still slowly getting it up and running . any way catch ya
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