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Sandman data - ready for critique.
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HK1837 Offline
#221 Posted : Monday, 17 September 2007 6:41:13 AM(UTC)
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Will have a better look later, but the problem is a lot of the trim codes are common to other non-Sandman base models. You are probably right about the insert trim codes not being available in Sandman, but as the parts manuals state Sandman and Kingswood I didnt want to leave any out. Plus if the trim code isnt available its not too much off a problem to include them.

What I have recorded is:

HQ - 30B, 35B, 39B, 30E. There will be others as HQ Kinswood had other xxE codes. Problem is B trim codes were available on HQ Belmonts with bucket seats.

HJ - 18V, 19V, 64V, 60A, 60V

HX - 18V, 19V (prototype), 60A, 67V.

HZ - 18V, 23C, 60A, 60B, 60V, 63V, 67V.

I have found 67V on at least 1 x XX7 plated HZ (plus on other non-Acacia examples).

I totally believe you about HJ Kingswood Sandman going before the end. The HJ parts catalogue sort of reflects this too. I think it was about the same time that the XX3 was introduced ie the 1976 model release.

I have to update the site when time permits. Collecting plenty of ID helps to solve some riddles, and HJ has a few which ID collecting has helped.

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Edited by user Monday, 17 September 2007 6:45:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Absinth Offline
#222 Posted : Monday, 17 September 2007 7:54:32 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Byron, well that blows my theory out of the water then. XX7 Sandmans with base model codes comfirms they were available on Sandmans. It doesnt make sense to list codes for base models EXCEPT Sandman when some were obviously available on Sandmans ???

I also just notice you have the HZ codes from the parts manual listed on your site, dont know how I overlooked it. I have recorded the plate info from Sandmans on Ebay and others I see, if you want them for your records let me know and Ill email them to you as you may not have some of them.

Cheers, Sean
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HK1837 Offline
#223 Posted : Monday, 17 September 2007 4:17:22 PM(UTC)
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Ill look at it better later Sean when I fix the HJ section on my website. I agree with you about the confusion, but the EXCEPT bit you are talking about applies only in HX and HZ plus remember there were HXs built pre HX release and these seem to use HJ trim codes.
Any Sandman data is welcome too.

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Guest
#224 Posted : Thursday, 20 September 2007 5:25:11 AM(UTC)
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Ive reviewed your Sandman webpage and can add the following. Only Brisbane assembled Sandmans had XX7 after the Model number- Ive never seen an XX7 from any other assembly plant. I believe that all other genuine Sandmans had a spaced Model Number as you can see in the photo of the HX ID plates that you show. i.e HX8W N 70 - the spaces between W_N_70 indicate a Sandman. Ive seen plenty of Sandys over the years and this has always been consistent. The non-Sandman vans and utes had a model number without spaces e.g HXWM70
Ive got a few photos of HX Sandman ID plates for anyone thats interested. My email is [email protected] Cheers, Carlos
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HK1837 Offline
#225 Posted : Thursday, 20 September 2007 6:11:31 AM(UTC)
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Carlos

Interesting observation. But unfortunately not right on the spacing thing. The spacing you are referring to was standard for Elizabeth (Adelaide) constructed bodies in at least HX and HZ. All HX vans from Pagewood and Dandenong in HX and HZ were built from Elizabeth constructed bodies so they have Elizabeth BODY plates. Ive got heaps of HX and HZ van and 1-tonner ID plates with the same spacing, and many of these are definitely not Sandmans eg 3 seats, 3 speeds, Kingswoods (or 1-tonners for that matter!) etc. The HX8W N 70 is definitely NOT a Sandman as its a HX Kingswood van.
You are correct about the XX7 only being on Acacia Ridge Sandmans, but the same applies to XV4 and XW8 HQs etc. Only Acacia Ridge did this.

All help and comments welcome. Im open to any challenges to what I have on the site. Some needs a bit of fixing too!

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sandmanxx7 Offline
#226 Posted : Thursday, 20 September 2007 8:13:19 AM(UTC)
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hi byron,
i would like to ask you a question about the kingswood sandman theory...

if someone ordered a kingswood panelvan & ordered the rally wheels (gts) as an option, holden by law had to derate the gvw on the compliance right?
& if this was brisbane made they would get the xx7?

unless you can prove that the kingswood sandman compliance you removed was definatley the original rivets, chances are it was a stolen sandman or a rebirth? now if you look at half the vans out there these days the tags have been removed on a majority of them even just for respraying.
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sandmanxx7 Offline
#227 Posted : Thursday, 20 September 2007 9:19:02 AM(UTC)
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sorry byron just relised that the gvw derated figure is from tyres. not rims! ......i should read more.
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HK1837 Offline
#228 Posted : Thursday, 20 September 2007 4:24:12 PM(UTC)
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Sort of right. If it was a Brisbane van and you ordered sedan tyres (option XU4) it would have nothing on the plate UNLESS it was a Sandman and you ordered sedan tyres then it would have XX7. The second doesnt apply to Kingswood vans though as you couldnt order a Kingswood Sandman in HX or HZ. The difference is XU3 and XX7 are model variant options that got you a heap of features (the difference between them being the tyres), whereas XU4 was simply a tyre option. Other examples of model variant options are HQ 4-door GTS (model variant option on a HQ V8 Kingswood sedan) or HZ Vacationer. An option sort of comparable to XU4 is N66, which is Rally Rims (GTS rims) in HQ-HZ. These could be ordered on most all HQ-HZ but you wouldnt see N66 on the BODY plate of a HX sedan if Rally rims were ordered (although they would probably have been dealer fitted anyway so its probably a shaky comparason but you get the point).

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Robbo Offline
#229 Posted : Friday, 21 September 2007 7:31:23 AM(UTC)
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Hi Byron Its great to see so many people interested in sandmans of all models,and the work you have put into research is amazing.I bought a new sandman ute from Hillsdons Holden[which no longer exists] in Parramatta NSW in January 1979 when I was 22.It was palais white with blue interior,4.2 litre manual and it had the bright blue stripes with the thin orange strip through them.It did not have the gts guards on it,but it came with a 14 inch version of the then SLE commodore wheels.It was built in 12/78 and came with no radio.I still have all the purchase documents and the vehicle identification page from the owners manual, and numerous photos from when I owned it.I had to sell it when I got married,although I traded in a ford to buy it. cheers Rob.


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Absinth Offline
#230 Posted : Friday, 21 September 2007 8:22:10 AM(UTC)
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Hi Robbo, great to hear from someone who purchased a Sandman new. Post up some pics of it if you can and some pics of your documentation would also be great if possible. Sandmans didnt come with a radio as they were essentually base models, not sure if the HQ HJ Kingswood Sandman utes came with a radio though. They possibly did being Kingswoods.

I lucked out the other day, my HX has had windows cut into it and there was a windowless HZ on Ebay last week in the Townsville area that was to be scrapped if it didnt sell. I rang the seller and asked if I could buy the side panels off him if it didnt sell. He rang me back and said he would cut them out for me and I could have them for the cost to freight them to me. Really nice guy and he was just happy they would be used to restore another Sandman, hats off to him for doing that for me. It is nice to know people are still willing to go out of their way to help others. He told me he had a heap of calls and emails about parts after the auction ended and has parted a lot of it out.
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HK1837 Offline
#231 Posted : Friday, 21 September 2007 4:16:34 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Robbo
Hi Byron Its great to see so many people interested in sandmans of all models,and the work you have put into research is amazing.I bought a new sandman ute from Hillsdons Holden[which no longer exists] in Parramatta NSW in January 1979 when I was 22.It was palais white with blue interior,4.2 litre manual and it had the bright blue stripes with the thin orange strip through them.It did not have the gts guards on it,but it came with a 14 inch version of the then SLE commodore wheels.It was built in 12/78 and came with no radio.I still have all the purchase documents and the vehicle identification page from the owners manual, and numerous photos from when I owned it.I had to sell it when I got married,although I traded in a ford to buy it. cheers Rob.


Rob

Id be interested in seeing the purchase documents and factory documents just to have a record. a 12/78 with N67 wheels is good information - they were fitted standard prior to the end of HZ GTS (early 1979), but exactly when remains a mystery to me. Also the idea of GTS guards on late Sandmans is still a mystery as I havent found an original car post 2/79 to prove or disprove it. The rumour is that the HZ Sandman got GTS guards back after the GTS disappeared, but no-one can show me any GMH documentation to prove it, or better still an original 1-owner late HZ Sandman.

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Dr Terry Offline
#232 Posted : Friday, 21 September 2007 5:50:29 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Absinth
Sandmans didnt come with a radio as they were essentually base models, not sure if the HQ HJ Kingswood Sandman utes came with a radio though. They possibly did being Kingswoods.


HQ/HJ Kingswoods did not get radios as standard equipment. As a matter of fact either did HQ/HJ Premiers.

AFAIK the first Kingswood to get a standard radio was the HZ Kingswood SL. This excludes Deluxes etc.

Dr Terry.
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#233 Posted : Saturday, 22 September 2007 7:07:50 AM(UTC)
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Hi all, these are purchase documents of my sandman ute. I apologise for the quality of some of them. I will post some pictures as soon as I locate them. Robbo
IMG_0193.JPG
IMG_0194.JPG
IMG_0200.JPG
IMG_0201.JPG
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#234 Posted : Saturday, 22 September 2007 7:10:23 AM(UTC)
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Sorry about that im having difficulty posting these photos.Robbo
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HK1837 Offline
#235 Posted : Saturday, 22 September 2007 7:37:33 AM(UTC)
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Robbo

Send them to my email address:

holden at monaroparts dot com.

Just fix the at and the dot and itll work.
Ill see if I cam post them for you.

Byron

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#236 Posted : Saturday, 22 September 2007 9:07:19 AM(UTC)
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Ok thanks Byron, I will give it a go.
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Absinth Offline
#237 Posted : Sunday, 23 September 2007 10:28:46 AM(UTC)
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Byron, I havent seen mention of just straight black Sandman decals and was wondering if they were produced. Below is part of the HZ Seawitch flyer I found on the net and the stripes and rear Sandman decals appear to be all black. I quite like the look of it on the yellow van as they go well with the other blackouts. Has anyone got an original flyer that they can confirm the colour off?
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HK1837 Offline
#238 Posted : Sunday, 23 September 2007 7:27:33 PM(UTC)
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They are blue with an orange border. DY2 I think it is.

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sandmanxx7 Offline
#239 Posted : Sunday, 23 September 2007 8:37:37 PM(UTC)
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yeah i have this original brochure, as byron said it is a dy2 ... this was the recommended combination for a jasmin yellow & palias white hz sandmans dy2-orange/brightblue/bluegreen

i think the black decals your thinking of are the hq-hj series one sandman decals they were only white or black.
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Robbo Offline
#240 Posted : Sunday, 23 September 2007 9:29:20 PM(UTC)
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Byron, Did you receive the pics I sent to your email? I hope it worked this time. Rob
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