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Id put about a 90% probability on it being a Sandman. 67C is indeed an odd trim code, but it may simply be a mistake. Is the trim brown or bone (off-white)? It may be meant to be 67V or 63C. Such mistakes do happen.
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i have the factory holden colour & trim selector here for ordering back in the day at the holden dealer , it was issued in october 1978....
its definately not a sandman trim, its the standard straight commercial trim for a hz commercial 8wm60, 8wm70, 8wm80. 67c is listed in here as the only trim available for these base models... which is tan, no other trim combos were available or recommended on these base models & only 5 paint colours availble 1926 flamenco red, 1927 jasmine yellow, 1949 mojave beige, 1930 palais white, 1931 panama green, all available with recommended two tone except for 190 palais white. also something to note though is xy9 neutral headlinging standard.
just to clarify some more ...
kingswood 8wn70 & 8wn80 offered light grey 11c, light blue 23c, sage green 33c, buckskin 63c, dark carmine 77c
now sandman offered only...
light grey 11c, light blue 23c, & buckskin 63c these were the only trims availble for the last of the hz sandmans....
i would say that your adr chassis plate may be from another vehicle, a real sandman, the other 2 plates may be from a commercial vehicle, check with byron? thus making a pretty good faker of a sandman,.....this is definatley possible as they are not factory original rivets on your tags another thing might be to check that the body is actually white originally.
id say close but no cigar....
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Interesting stuff. Any chance of a scan of these pages? It will help to define further the identification of post 10/78 Sandmans. We need to be very careful though in using such data as Holden had a tedency to break their own "rules". Example, I have an 11/78 Acacia XX7 with 63V trim, and a 10/78 Acacia XX7 with 23C trim. This identifies a problem in this area already ie according to Holdens own ordering procedure the 63V XX7 shouldnt exist. All of the other post 10/78 vehicles recorded are as you say, so good find!
Onto the vehicle with the 67C trim code. By the ordering procedure it wont be a Sandman then. But I have found more than a few with Sandman pointers all over the place but something else says its not ie a mistake on the plates. The best example is a plate matching Acacia XX7 HQ with a seating capacity of 3! So if the van has tan trim in it or evidence of it Id say not a Sandman. If the trim or evidence of it is buckskin then Id say the tag is meant to be 63C and its a Sandman.
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byron not to sure if that sandy is one of mine or not but i also have one with 63V trim, 11/78 acacia ridge built Pano xx7. i also read the above last night and though hmmmm.... thats strange.. its been chopped into a ute so it dont have hood lining. but i just saw the XX7 and thought well it has to be. But maybe its not...... Holden may have made a mistake on putting the XX7 on there? it has the low 2000kg GVW but maybe its just ment to be a XU4, has all the other good gear, v8 floor shift manal, gts dash etc, but the twin headlight front doesnt have the cut outs in it for the gts spoiler vents. but theres a big change that its a diferent front anyhow. Edited by user Wednesday, 26 September 2007 6:01:47 PM(UTC)
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2000kg is unique to late HZ XX7. All V8 HZ XU4 vans were 1950kg. So yours must be a Sandman, and I think it is yours on the list I was referring to.
On another note, I had a guy contact me today with a 9/74 HQ V8 van. Factory M20, GTS dash and wheel with blank centre cap. Painted in metallic paint, but in HJ Satin Mist. However it has a 39A trim code and is a 3-seater hence not a Sandman. It would appear that by the time Holden started using HJ paint on HQs they had relaxed the "rule" in the ordering procedure that you couldnt get metallic on a Belmont commercial unless it was a Sandman. Id say the original owner of this one wanted a bench seat "Sandman" but couldnt get one so he specced up a Belmont. Probably cost more than an XX7 to buy. Apparantly it has a factory HQ bench with a centre armrest too.
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my 3/79 XX7 ute has 1950 GVM
... FYI
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As it should be. I was referring to vans. They seem to have a higher GVW than utes all the way through in XX7 and XU4 for some reason. The XU3 and normal GVW is the same, just the derated ones are lower. From memory early HZ XX7 is the only time they line up as the same at 1950kg.
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Is 39A brown or chestnut? The HQ parts catalogue contradicts itself as under trim codes it is listed as brown but for interior trim parts it is listed as chestnut. I also picked up a HX parts catalogue and it revealed a lot about identifying a Sandman. To be a Sandman the dash facia must be silver faced. Ambulance packs and the GTS dash option on Belmonts and Kingswoods are plain black facia. All Sandman reference listings are Belmont only...8WM70 and 8WM80. No HX Kingswood Sandmans. 18V...slate black...Sandman only 60A...Chamois.......Sandman and Belmont 65A...Sienna........Sandman only 67V...Tan...........Sandman and Belmont So, the only way to fake a HX Sandman is to find a 2 seat V8 Belmont with a 60A or 67V trim code and fit it up with all the Sandman bits. According to the parts catalogue anyway. Also, I cannot find any reference to the ambulance pack being available on Kingswood, only 8WM60 and 8WM70 models. Edited by user Saturday, 29 September 2007 12:39:58 PM(UTC)
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The BO6 availability is in the HX Features manual (8/76 revision), not the parts catalogue. Ive found that before any assumptions can be made from parts catalogues you need to have ALL revisions of it, or youll make big mistakes. If you read the late HJ catalogue youd state that HJ Kingswood ute Sandmans didnt exist. Also the stripe designations in the various HZ catalogues are all over the place.
Remember also that the base HX Sandman was a 202. So to fake one youd need a base model floor shift 2 seater with full length headlining if a van and at least a 202. Probably the easiest way to do this would be to buy a Kingswood van body and put a 2 seater base model plates and chassis on it. Lots of work when original HX Sandmans are relatively cheap. And bordering on fraud to boot!
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byron i will scan these colour & trim ordering procedure pages as soon as i set up my scanner (got to pick it up from work)....
one thing i have been trying to work on is the colour combos/ decals & colour recommendations etc for each model... as there seems to be a lot of uncertainty out there about what decal should go on what paint colour....
here is what i can confirm in hard evidence from the october colour & trim selector pages...
so late hzs only!
here are the decal colour codes:
dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
dl7- notes: the decal code must be specified - if no decals required "dl7" must be specified!
now there is only 1 recommended decal recommended for each colour...so here they are remember late hz only: ( this part gets interesting because this really can rule out sandmans using the interior trim codes against the paint, byron let me know if you check the register... )
solid exterior colours/ decals/ interior trim
1948 ashley grey dy4 available with 11c light grey trim only
1189 firethorn dy6 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1926 flamenco red dy3 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1927 jasmin yellow dy2 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1949 mojave beige dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1930 palais white dy2 (all 3 trims availble) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1931 panama green dx5 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1959 tuxedo black dx5 (all 3 trims availble) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
metallic exterior colours
1934 atlantis blue dx5 available with 23c light blue trim only
1952 aztec silver dx5 (all 3 trims avaiable) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1953 dark carmine dy6 (2 trims available) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1954 malachite dy6 (2 trims availble) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1955 mirage blue dx5 (all 3 trims available) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1956 mistral grey dx6 (2 trims availble) 11c light grey, 63c bucksin
1957 nocturn blue dx5 (all 3 trims available) 11c light grey, 23c light blue , 63c bucksin
1937 saddle tan dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1958 sage green dy4 available with 63c buckskin trim only
1945 sandal wood dy1 available with 63c buckskin trim only
now to make it easeir for people to check there colour, cross referencing with sandmanowners.com paint codes we have the following conclusion for late hz.....
HZ Sandman 1979
dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
dy3-yellow / orange / red
dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Ashley Grey 30857 - 1948 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Atlantis Blue Met. 30525 - 1934 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Aztec Silver Met. 30851 - 1952 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Dark Carmine Met. 30852 - 1953 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Firethorn 10981 - 1189 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Flamenco Red 30517 - 1926 dy3-yellow / orange / red
Jasmine Yellow 30518 - 1927 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Malachite Met. 30853 - 1954 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mirage Blue Met. 30854 - 1955 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Mistral Grey 30855 - 1956 dy6- dark blue / purple / plum
Mojave Beige 30858 - 1949 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Nocturne Blue Met. 30856 - 1957 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Palais White 30521 - 1930 dy2-orange / bright blue / blue green
Panama Green 30522 - 1931 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
Saddle Tan Met. 30528 - 1937 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Sage Green Met. 30967 - 1958 dy4-white / blue green / dark blue
Sandlewood Met. 30583 - 1945 dy1- orange / brown / darkbrown
Tuxedo Black (MK.2) 30861 - 1959 dx5- bright blue / blue green / dark blue
also using this hard evidence brings up some combinations that are apparent for either all hx-hz, probably the most interesting decal here i think is the change to the dy6
im a signmaker/designer so i have been working on a visual way of showing the decals & colour combos ill keep you guys posted.
oh yeah im trying to find more out more for earlier hz & hxs so if you got some info share alike...the main reason behind this is my factory black hx sandman. i presumed it had dx5s (when i bought it it had been sprayed gun metal & had crook signwriters silver decals on it) so i resprayed it black & put the dx5s on as i had a original full set & was lucky enough to get the last set of reprinted dx5s from the south australian van club which are waiting for its "real" respray... but now looking into it i have the original van wheels issue number 1 which come out when the hx was out (has the adds etc & a hx sandman review) there is a shot of the exhibition "movin free" & there is a black sandman in there with dy3s yellow / orange / red which would make a lot more sense considering the 65a sienna interior......
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as i mentioned above heres a peep into what ive been doin...  also what is the decal on the back of this tailgate? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/w...wItem&item=230175859810
Edited by user Monday, 1 October 2007 10:13:35 PM(UTC)
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The tailgate decal on ebay looks like HX.. DY2... Orange, light blue, blue.
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hmmm i was thinking a dy6 just really faded....
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sandmanxx7..
1926 flamenco red dy3 available with 63c buckskin trim only
i own a paint 1926 sandy with 63V trim. its a XX7. it was mentioned earlier in this thread. |
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hzute... i dont think it would apply to yours because its a november 78 right? I would strictly only apply this data to post 79 hzs. i have a hz sandman, im pretty sure its a 78, i dont have photo of the adr plate, but ill check it out this week. ... here is the body id plate its a 63v also.  but there is no difference between 63c & 63v as they are both bucksin vinyl trim, the later of the 2 "v" was used on the new commodore & the "c" was on the vans & utes etc... id say this was the change. & if it had cloth it either had the usual "x" & if it was cord it was usally "t".
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Luv yr work sandmanXX7! Heres a photo of one of my HZ sandmen.... 
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doesnt get any better than that in my eyes, looks like original paint, surface rust on the roof, original decals, a couple of repairs hmmm i would find it hard to respray that one i love it how it is ;D heres my factory black hx sandman  also as i was mentioning above about the 63c stuff, i just checked a pic of my mates 79 firethorn sandman & his is exactly to the trim & colour selector.... 1189 firethorn dy6 available with 63c buckskin trim only
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Very nice!! I also have a Mistral Grey sandman awaiting restoration. It has 63C buckskin too..   
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mistral grey, nice combo!  just to confirm the other van, it is Caribbean Turquoise with dX5 - bright blue/blue green/dark blue?
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Gday sandmanXX7
yes the other van is carribean turquise mettalic. And yes the decals which are just holding in there after all these years in the sun are bright blue/blue green/dark blue. I just got a new set from the adelaide sandman club. Theyll look great once i get the funds to respray her.
Thanks for the mistral grey info. It had no stripes when I got it so I always wondered what the colour combo was. Im looking at trading her for a HJ monaro in bendigo but if that doesnt happen Ill keep on with the plan of restoring her to her former glory.
Cheers.
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