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got to thinking today. a friend of mine has a 186 bored 192, cam, forged crank and so on and were looking for a eh,hd or hr to drop it into. i thought it would be really cool to have a crossflow head for this motor but i've never heard of it.. has anyone ever heard of an aftermarket or custom crossflow head for a holden 6 cylinder?
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Hi
Ive only heard of the old twin-cam heads(Waggott or Repco i think) for the grey Motor.
Regards
Basil
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yeah im heading about those waggot heads for the grey morors, but thats about it. ideally id like d.o.h.c. crossflow, but either would be nice with the luck im having
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I have seen the twin cam Waggot, the Repco cross flow and the Dunstan rotary valve heads for grey motors. There is plenty of information about all of them on the net. The only cross flow head I have seen on a red motor was a 250 alloy Falcon on a 202. It is far from a bolt on conversion and requires a lot of machining and welding but it is possible.
Brian
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Hi Guys.
This question of cross-flow & twin-cam heads for Holden 6-cyl motors pops up regularly & some of it is urban myth, so I thought that I would tell you what I know to be fact.
The Repco ‘Hi-Power’ cross-flow head was designed by Phil Irving (of Vincent motor cycle & Repco Brabham F1 fame) & was only made to suit the Grey motor. Opinions vary, but it appears that between 100 to 150 of these were made.
The ‘Waggot’ twin-cam head was also only made to suit the Grey. It was designed & made by Merv Waggot of Waggot Engineering at Greenacre in Sydney. Only about 6 or 8 of these were ever made, making then rarer than rocking horse poop.
To my knowledge, there were 2 other heads made for the Grey motor, but again these are very rare. There was another twin-cam head made by Fred Foster (2 or 3 made) & there was also the Dunstall ‘Rotary Valve’ head (6 or 8 made).
Phil Irving also made (this time separate from Repco) a hi-flow head for the Red motor, but only 2 or 3 were ever made. These were not a cross-flow design, but had a high intake port, angled at 45 degrees.
Frank Duggan also designed a similar head to the high-port Irving head for the Red motor. Many of these were made. Duggans head design was also used in American speedway Chevy 6 & Chevy II (4-cyl) engined cars. AFAIK the Duggan Holden head design (& the dies?) was sold to another guy, who now calls them j.ZED. These are still available today.
I’m sure that there are other one-off Holden heads out there, that we’ve never seen, but other guys have thought more laterally & used heads of other motors to improve the performance of the Red motor. I’ve seen the Falcon alloy cross-flow head fitted to a Holden 202, which, as BrianH has said is far from a bolt-on fit. Believe it or not the bore-centre to bore-centre dimension of the Falcon 6 is the same as a Holden 6, making it at least ‘do-able’. They weld up the hole where the thermostat fits & reverse the head so that the rockers line up on the same side of the motor as the cam. A lot of welding & machining is involved because the head bolt-holes don’t line up, but I know of at least one of these conversions that is complete & working. This would be even more difficult with the Ford 6 DOHC head.
Most of this is, of course beyond the average DIY home mechanic.
Does anybody out there know of any other ‘special’ Holden heads that exist?
Dr Terry. |
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I cant think of any others Terry, you seem to have covered them pretty well. The Waggot head that I saw was on display at a Sydney motor show in about 1960. It had been built for a boat and used six Amal bike carbs. I have a copy of an old Wheels magazine that features a story on it. This site shows one with SUs. http://www.aussieroadrac...omestead.com/Stone.html I also saw the famous Centuar Waggot sports car racing. It used a couple of different heads but one was the twin cam. I have seen two Repco cross flow heads on the street, one in a 1927 T roadster hot rod, but most of them ended up on the speedway. I think all of those special heads were designed with competition in mind. I dont know how they would go in peak hour traffic. I think it was Phil Irving from memory who took his family car, a Peugeot 403, and made it into a V8 by cutting up two blocks and joining them together. I suppose that would be easy for someone who could design a F1 engine. I have another magazine somewhere that covered all the work that went into it. Brian Edited by user Wednesday, 20 June 2007 5:56:27 AM(UTC)
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I can't think of any others Terry, you seem to have covered them pretty well. The Waggot head that I saw was on display at a Sydney motor show in about 1960. It had been built for a boat and used six Amal bike carbs. I have a copy of an old Wheels Edited by user Wednesday, 20 June 2007 5:56:27 AM(UTC)
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They get these heads at work for the owners of AH's that have a real desire to spend a lot of money and have a desire for performance. http://www.dmdaustralia.com.au/
They may be convertible to a Holden red motor, but they appear to basically be a 1 |
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They get these heads at work for the owners of AHs that have a real desire to spend a lot of money and have a desire for performance. http://www.dmdaustralia.com.au/
They may be convertible to a Holden red motor, but they appear to basically be a 12 port alloy head, not crossflow. Looks to me very similar to the Yella Terra 12 port re-design. They are able to get 300hp with these heads and triple Webers. |
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Jzeds will make 400 hp using his combo of forged pistons that he makes along with his own rods
MONARO!!WHERE!!NICE |
MONARO!!WHERE!!NICE |
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Jzed's will make 400 hp using his combo of forged pistons that he makes along with his own rods
MONARO!!WHERE!!NICE |
MONARO!!WHERE!!NICE |
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quote:
Originally posted by Davesmonaro68
Jzed's will make 400 hp using his combo of forged pistons that he makes along with |
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quote:
Originally posted by Davesmonaro68
Jzeds will make 400 hp using his combo of forged pistons that he makes along with his own rods
MONARO!!WHERE!!NICE
What engine size is it? What fuel system? |
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianH
I think it was Phil Irving from memory who took his family car, a Peugeot 403, and made it into a V8 by cutting up two blocks and joining them together. I suppose that would be easy for someone who could design a F1 engine. I have another magazine somewhere that covered all the work that went into it.
Brian
On the same topic one of these guys (I cant remember which one) made a V12 utilising 2 Grey motor 6 blocks, joined together. Dr Terry. |
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianH
I think it was Phil Irving from memory who took his family car, a Peugeot 403, and made |
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There was an article in Street Machine a few years ago about a guy in Queensland that had designed a OHC crossflow head to suit both the Holden red and Falcon 4.1 crossflow. As the bore centres are the same as mentioned earlier, the head stud holes only h Edited by user Wednesday, 20 June 2007 7:52:30 AM(UTC)
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There was an article in Street Machine a few years ago about a guy in Queensland that had designed a OHC crossflow head to suit both the Holden red and Falcon 4.1 crossflow. As the bore centres are the same as mentioned earlier, the head stud holes only had to be drilled to suit. It was alloy, and the Ford "dual runner" intake manifold ( with a flap that could make the intake path long or short) could be used. It had 2 valves per cylinder. I dont know if any were sold for the street, but at least one was used for speedway. His website closed down a couple of years after the article was published. Rock Lob Edited by user Wednesday, 20 June 2007 7:52:30 AM(UTC)
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quote:
On the same topic one of these guys (I cant remember which one) made a V12 utilising 2 Grey motor 6 blocks, joined together.
I cant remember that one but it would not surprise me. They were mad in those days. If you wanted power back then you had to get very serious with engine modifications. There were some brilliant engineers around and many had unlimited imaginations. Brian
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quote:
On the same topic one of these guys (I can't remember which one) made a V12 utilising 2 Grey motor 6 blocks, joined together.
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