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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#21 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 4:52:02 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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High Plains,
regardless of all the truths in your statement, end of the day, it didnt sell, the whole deal of these auctions is just to get the people in and promote the selling establishments name.

As Byron said above your post, why wouldnt they have started the bidding even at $100???
I have been to many of these auctions around the country, and would never even contemplate selling a car through any of them, they market them wrong, promise the world, set stupid reserves, and when it doesnt sell, or even get close to reserve they come to you saying well, maybe you should take that highest bid. 11% or some huge amount later, you walk out with your car, and lighter in the wallet if you dont sell it...
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#22 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:02:16 AM(UTC)
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I have a feeling they may not have wanted to know its true value market value today , as that may devalue the car sales wise in this deflated market. They set a reserve and if there were no punters they wanted it left like that, so we could all then wonder and not speculate on it if it only made $100K or $110K.

www.monaromuscleparts.com

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:08:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:04:01 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by High Plains
The auctioneers had this as the first 350 Monaro ever produced. It was body #1 out of Pagewood so it was without doubt the first Monaro from Pagewood. But what of the other plants? Did they start production sooner? and they also have a body #1. Then take into account the preproduction cars that were tested at Lang Lang, no doubt some of them were 350 cars as they had to be sorted before suppling the public. All in all a lot of grey areas.
People read into something too far and assume this was the first car that Holdens put a 350 into.


Yes it is the first HT 1837 out of Pagewood, but nowhere near the first HT Monaro. The very first HT Monaro would have been made many months before this one. Remember GTS350 wasnt released until August 1968, HT was released in June. The first HT GTS350 would have been made much earlier as well in the Elizabeth plant. Warren has reported years ago that the first HT 1837 was built with a 327, and I think this was IDed as 1-A, so there was then probably no 350s in the pre-production Adelaide cars. I have photos of the ID of 1st HT 437 from Pagewood, which is the 8th HT Pagewood chassis and it is early enough to have HK ID plates. Incidentally my Pagewood GTS327 is number 2-H5 and it was the model release car for Sydney where it was presented to dealers and then I believe the Press.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
we wreck 81837s only Offline
#24 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:26:51 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Monaro Muscle Parts
I have a feeling they may not have wanted to know its true value market value today , as that may devalue the car sales wise in this deflated market. They set a reserve and if there were no punters they wanted it left like that, so we could all then wonder and not speculate on it if it only made $100K or $110K.

www.monaromuscleparts.com


jimmy, what are you on??? that amsterdam tobacco must be better than what they say it is!!
the car is just not worth the dollars, simple. unforturnately thats how it is
now go get me some gelati, and yell you more about it!!
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#25 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:35:34 AM(UTC)
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Dont get me reminiscing about the old country ,i can smell the Beef Croquettes and Whacky weed as i write. I agree it is only worth what someone will pay , but the owners have to find that out themselves the hard way. I was pointing out their tactics , as i assume they dont want the car becoming a social leper as some other Monaros around town have become . Its a great car that i believe you ever be hard pressed to replicate today, due to the rare original parts its has rather than repro.

www.monaromuscleparts.com

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:38:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

we wreck 81837s only Offline
#26 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:49:32 AM(UTC)
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thats better james,
as i have always said, when you put a car out there and it overprised from the start, it gets looked at, criticised, certain communities yak yak yak, then it becomes unsellable to a certain degree, and then you either keep it, or move it. buyer sets the market to a certain degree, but seller also does, as he/she allows it to be sold for that amount
as it is with anything, first offer is usually your best, so if its close, grab it, and if it really close to what you want, GIFT WRAP IT!

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:54:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HKGTS186S Offline
#27 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 7:34:39 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
thats better james,
as i have always said, when you put a car out there and it overprised from the start, it gets looked at, criticised, certain communities yak yak yak, then it becomes unsellable to a certain degree, and then you either keep it, or move it. buyer sets the market to a certain degree, but seller also does, as he/she allows it to be sold for that amount
as it is with anything, first offer is usually your best, so if its close, grab it, and if it really close to what you want, GIFT WRAP IT!





Spot on . Especially at the moment.
Warren Turnbull Offline
#28 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:12:19 PM(UTC)
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Just to clarify the number 1 statis of this car, here is the history of the number 1 cars as I know it.

As stated earlier the first HT 81837 was built in Adelaide during the HK programme. This car was built, along with a series of other HTs, for production process and for some initial testing. there was no need to crash test these cars as they were structurally the same as an HK.

This particular car turned up at Wangarata in 1998 and the owners girl friend appraoched me re the number plate on the car being from the "Mean enough to stay out front advertisement. I then examine the plate to find the details, as the car was not entered in the event I had not seen it yet.

Later discussion found that a fellow at the event knew of the car from previous owners who stated that when they purchased it it had a 327 engine.

When we found the assembly date it had some logic to it, as it was built so early that there were probably no 350s in the country yet, so apparently GM-H fitted a 327 second type engine, as it is visaully the same and accessory the same, so all the "new 350 parts" would fit. After soem more research it was also found to be the car in the "scorching success" ad, which interestingly does not have side stripes, which are standard and not deletable on GTS350s. This is the problem with very early built cars, specs change and they are sometimes not right.

The first 81837 from Sydney was not built until after the HT was released, but from what we have found the first batch went through the Sydney plant. This batch was destined for the press cars etc as high plain said. This car was the first car fitted with a 350 engine by GM-H.

This car has an interesting history, which I helped the owners research. What they knew when the car was purchased was the car was at Bathurst when the 1969 race was on. There was a despute about the 4 bolt mains on the GTS 350 and Ford insited that the main be checked, and they used this car in the Bthurst dealership.

The car also did not have its engine but a check through the registry (you could do it back then) found the engine did not ahve an M or A in the engine number.

From that we "assumed" that the engine must have been pulled out and rather than refit, Harry Firth must have kept the engine and a replacement "NASCO" engine fitted.

Then in the 90s Shifty 350 contacted Ben about a car he was buying and Ben told him to ensure it had an M in the engine number not an A. He came back and said it had neither. Ben and I had discussed the number 1 car befre so he went and checked the car. This car was the number 4 car and it also had no M or A.

I then asked Harry about the car at the dealership and he confirmed it was a green and gold GTS 350, but all they did was remove the oil and gas axe a hole in the sump. He was pissed as they then never even came down to look.

So now we had to find why the first 4 cars had no M or A, but the 7th, I think does, it was quite simple no one picked it up until the first 350 auto was made. They did not realise they had to differentiate between engines, as there was only one engine at a time per cubic capacity for Chevrolet engines used in Holdens up until then.

The number 4 car was to be used as a press car, like High plains pointed out.

The number 2 cars from both Adelaide and Sydney are also significant cars and both still exist. They shed some light onto the above theories.

The number 2 Sydney car had one owner from 1971 to a few years ago. he car had already had an engine change before this owner purchased it, but was still fitted with a Sydney assigned engine, but from mid 71. It was beleived that this car was press car APX415, but some research shows this is not the case. The second engine has since vanished when the owner had it reconditioned 10 years ago. The car is being restored today

The number 2 Adelaide car came down the production line not far behind the number 1 car, however it was not fitted with an engine at this time. It was pushed to one side. In February 1970 it was fitted with an engine. We know this as it has a compliance plate. Compliance plates only have to be fitted to cars that are built after 1/70, and built means when the engine and chassis come together. This car has an Chassis number and VIn that place it in early 1969, but the engine number matches the 2/70 date. This adds further speculation that the first 81837 was fitted with a second type 327 engine for production line purposes, but then the second car pushed to one side to await the arrival of the 350 engines.

Anyway let you guys make up your own minds on what was the first GTS 350 built, this is just the info I have found over the last 20 years.

Warren

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 5:16:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#29 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 6:29:40 PM(UTC)
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Warren

Excellent piece of history. You should write a book on this stuff!!

Imagine the fuss the 2-A car would cause. Youd have to have initially wondered what the hell was going on?

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Rusty Bullethole Offline
#30 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 6:49:59 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
Just to clarify the number 1 statis of this car, here is the history of the number 1 cars as I know it.


Anyway let you guys make up your own minds on what was the first GTS 350 built, this is just the info I have found over the last 20 years.

Warren




Stick that in your pipe MrPink and D.A Barnes. Lets see you give as much info to this forum as Warren does.

Warren has forgotten more about Monaros than you two will ever know. It is about time you both crawled back under your rocks and let Warren do his stuff..
we wreck 81837s only Offline
#31 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 9:34:56 PM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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i agree, warren is the king, and th "DOC" is a legend as well..

but best of all, they bothe really good blokes

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 9:37:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Warren Turnbull Offline
#32 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 4:46:39 PM(UTC)
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Hey Byron,

Not sure if I could write a book. Not qualified, as I have not dismantled 1000s of Monaros, or built 100s of them, seen too many or even employed in the auto industry, just a casual observer who reads heaps of literature to make assumptions. Apparently I have not even owned a Monaro????

Yes the number 2-A car was interesting, but took about 2 minutes to see what was going on, as the owner contacted me with all the details, even had the books from memory.

The owner had plans for the car at the time, but have not seen anything of it for about 10 years now. With curent prices it might be being restored to original condition, was mild modified back then.

Warren
shifty350 Offline
#33 Posted : Thursday, 7 May 2009 5:22:40 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Monaro Muscle Parts
People seem to be getting a bit off tangent here , i just wanted to know the price this car sold for and the body number is 1 on the tag . I was not trying to insinuate it was the first one built as i know its not the actual first built , but was using that as a figure of speech so people knew which car i was talking about . I cant believe no one from his forum was at the auction ?

www.monaromuscleparts.com


All,

The car in question had the bidding start at $50k. It went up very slowly from there until $130k where it stopped. As this bid was lower than the reserve it was passed in and the auction continued on to the next lot.

Hope this assists Monaro Muscle Parts.
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