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Ive seen those with upside down W before. It was only one assembly plant wasnt it?
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quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
quote:
Originally posted by ghg308
Warren is right, he checked out my 350m motor when i was selling it and it was an upside down W hey warren.
boy o boy the amount of cranky abusive emails i got from that sale was unbeleivable
ghg308
i could only imagine...you poor bloke..it would have been bad enough to actually remove the engine and actually restamp it!!
Yeah it would have been less hassle if it was restamped with an "m" but as soon as you start restamping things they are no longer original, i would prefer to have the original number that looks like the holden bloke punching it was hungover though then one that was restamped perfect, it all worked out in the end though once warren confirmed it, the only prob was some "experts" who hadnt heard of warren turnball, i just told them dont bother bidding if you dont know who he is. I even had people that thought there was only one chev casting number for the ht hg 350s...........
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quote:
Originally posted by ghg308
quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
quote:
Originally posted by ghg308
Warren is right, he checked out my 350m motor when i was selling it and it was an upside down W hey warren.
boy o boy the amount of cranky abusive emails i got from that sale was unbeleivable
ghg308
i could only imagine...you poor bloke..it would have been bad enough to actually remove the engine and actually restamp it!!
Yeah it would have been less hassle if it was restamped with an "m" but as soon as you start restamping things they are no longer original, i would prefer to have the original number that looks like the holden bloke punching it was hungover though then one that was restamped perfect, it all worked out in the end though once warren confirmed it, the only prob was some "experts" who hadnt heard of warren turnball, i just told them dont bother bidding if you dont know who he is.
I even had people that thought there was only one chev casting number for the ht hg 350s...........
yeah, its amazing. warren is a good fella, last of us remaining gentlemen. i hope you got out of that car while the going was good.
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quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
quote:
Originally posted by ghg308
quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
quote:
Originally posted by ghg308
Warren is right, he checked out my 350m motor when i was selling it and it was an upside down W hey warren.
boy o boy the amount of cranky abusive emails i got from that sale was unbeleivable
ghg308
i could only imagine...you poor bloke..it would have been bad enough to actually remove the engine and actually restamp it!!
Yeah it would have been less hassle if it was restamped with an "m" but as soon as you start restamping things they are no longer original, i would prefer to have the original number that looks like the holden bloke punching it was hungover though then one that was restamped perfect, it all worked out in the end though once warren confirmed it, the only prob was some "experts" who hadnt heard of warren turnball, i just told them dont bother bidding if you dont know who he is.
I even had people that thought there was only one chev casting number for the ht hg 350s...........
yeah, its amazing. warren is a good fella, last of us remaining gentlemen.
i hope you got out of that car while the going was good.
it actually ended up in a landcruiser of all things after it came out of the monaro, i had people telling me "thats not the right casting number for an original engine, but i need one anyway so will you take $500 cahs and i can pickup next week?" but in the end warren tracked down a fellow in qld who either had the car it belonged to or the engine number was close to his cars original number so it worked out well. anyways i best be quiet as this is off topic thanks for the chat we wreck 81837s only
Edited by user Saturday, 20 June 2009 8:39:32 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
To clarify the position of the nationals and the engine number.
This is just one aspect of the judgeing on a car, so an incorrect engine, or restamped engine did not disqualify a car from entering stock or concourse at Loxton.
Warren
Im floored by this comment. It sure fits with the Underbelly element if it is correct. My reading of what Warren has said is that cars with the wrong engines are permitted to enter these two classes at the Monaro Nationals and then go on to win them. Something isnt right here.
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You are not on your own, but then again I attended and it was pathetic. I was shocked as to the level of the event, I wont waste my time again.
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I agree D.A and Rev, i think you missed one of the categories though. Many keep talking about this "Concourse" Class . In "concourse" class you can have anything as you are just waiting in a Hotel Lobby , but in "concours" class you must have everything correct in my opinion! I think people should just bring their cars along to the nationals and other cars shows for Monaros and just plain enjoy themselves, as i dont think the Monaro people in all honesty understand what true concours really means otherwise we would not have the category . There really is hardly a car out there good enough for that category that i have seen (including mine). If you sent some NCRS Corvette Judges over and bought them up to speed on Monaros they would probably have a snigger at the authenticity and quality of our Restored Monaros. And since these cars were built at multiple plants , had multiple suppliers of parts etc... you would never be able to standardise the judging as there are to few people who know what they are talking about with these cars . Just my thoughts . Johnboy Everything in life has its price Edited by user Sunday, 28 June 2009 3:39:26 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Sebring Orange
I agree D.A and Rev, i think you missed one of the categories though.
Many keep talking about this "Concourse" Class .
In "concourse" class you can have anything as you are just waiting in a Hotel Lobby , but in "concours" class you must have everything correct in my opinion!
I think people should just bring their cars along to the nationals and other cars shows for Monaros and just plain enjoy themselves, as i dont think the Monaro people in all honesty understand what true concours really means otherwise we would not have the category . There really is hardly a car out there good enough for that category that i have seen (including mine). If you sent some NCRS Corvette Judges over and bought them up to speed on Monaros they would probably have a snigger at the authenticness and quality of our Restored Monaros. And since these cars were built at multiple plants , had multiple suppliers of parts etc... you would never be able to standardise the judging as there are to few people who know what they are talking about with these cars .
Just my thoughts .
Johnboy
Everything in life has its price
blah blah blah johnny boy..im gettin bored with all this yak yak yak. get me something "concourse" to cut up...and i dunn mean cutting across my hotel "concourse" to get to the lift..to become crew chief of the "doorslammer".. oh which hotel floor do i slam which doors??????? hehehe
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Touchy subject. I wasnt at the Loxton event I was down at Waikerie setting up the drags for the following day so I dont know what car won what.
But my understanding about judging is the car that is the best in its class wins. Now it seems this can lead to confusion later when a seller says his car has won a concours event, people are going to think its 100% original and in many cases it isnt.
So I think vehicles entering in a concours class should be judged on say a 200 point system with points are added if originality can be confirmed eg: hoses, clamps, engine, mouldings ect.
Now as no vehicle would make 200 points unless it was driven straight from the factory to the show the winner of this class may only get 150 points. If the owner ever wants to sell the vehicle he can say it is a 150/200 point car. This may stop some confusion as to how original the vehicle is.
Just a idea anyway.
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I agree Franky , but if the Nationals are going to go on again and these judging categories are going to remain , i was just stating a fair point of view. Im with you build them and and enjoy them to how you would like them, or restore them to your budget , as many people i understand only have a small budget to work with . Many peoples egos and pride get hurt at these events also , as it seems to be a "how longs yours" contest that many take it too seriously to make themselves feel important . Again Just my thoughts Franky. Johnboy Everything in life has its price Edited by user Sunday, 28 June 2009 3:44:19 AM(UTC)
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Yes I know that some do not beleive a car with the wrong engine should be in either original or concours classes.
At one event there was a complaint about an LE having an 11QT engine. Under the CURRENT rules this is ok.
So if we had have had only cars with their original enigne then I would judge them that way and then the car in question would have been disqualified, it was not in the rules, made up by the Monaro clubs, and therefore stands. To clarify one point though, the car did not win the class. But so many are commenting as if it did, suggesting that I was incompetent for letting it win, to those I say LEARN THE FACTS.
So from the comments here from the more knowledgeable I shall suggest that at the next nationals, all cars in Concours, authentic and up comming survivor must have the original identifications, so that HQ to Z also have to have their original chassis as well as enigne, the chassis will also be checked for restamping.
As we do not have a full compliment of Holden records, the owner must PROVE the car still has the right bits by presenting the original owner manual and reciept or first registration papers.
If your car does not have these itmes then it CANNOT be entered in the above classes, no matter how original it looks.
Whilst we are at it, any coupe with remanufactured tags shall not be elligible for the above classes or street modified, only modified and show class. Any sedan with remanufactered tags will be inelligible to enter the event.
Any vehicle with a restamped engine number shall only be elligiable for modified, any vehicle with a replacement engine of the correct displacement shall be elligible for all modified classes, any vehicle with an enigne of other displacement (ie HK with 202) shall be modified or show class. HQ to Z with replacement chassis or restamped chassis can only enter modified or show class, as the vehicle the chassis came from cannot be confirmed.
This will make it real easy as there shall only be about 10 cars in stock classes and all the critics will be happy. (as most cars sold through a car yard at some time do not have books, and any HQ to HZ in a front ender will not be allowed, many do have engine changes and lots of V8s have been restamped due to being decked during rebuild.)
We shall also list a car that is inelligible so that if the owner "fixes" the above, by reproducing the owner manual, or stamping the engine more "corrctly", and this list shall be posted so that all know not to let them into the event in the future, as Ben, myself and others maynot be at every event in the future, after all when it goes to WA in 2012 and they will need this info so that you guys do not crucify them.
Warren
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lets add if it,s been repainted even in factory color, it will have to enter modified class.
it,s all crazy
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i prefer to enjoy the monaros and the monaro nationals for what they are, a gathering of beautiful cars, i see the cars for what they are, not what there judged by, im not fussed by the judging at all, i enjoyed the monaro nats in ballarat, i seen more monaros in one place than ive ever seen before, and at the end of the day i got to drive next to then and beside the and in front of them, thats why i went
if you dont like the way there judged then leave before the trophys are handed out, easy pezy
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Now you are talking Warren ! And after people meet your criteria there will only be a few cars to judge in the pinnacle classes . So they can be judged thoroughly by the experts now,and the winner really will have earned the crown properly . The next problem is that the best cars do not go to the Nationals ,but again many of these people are critiques rather than putting there own cars out there or actually finish them . Wheres the enjoyment i say ! The answer may be to have one Trailer Queen and also a Hottie to thrash around and actually enjoy ! Johnboy Everything in life has its price Edited by user Sunday, 28 June 2009 6:04:29 AM(UTC)
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Thats why a I think a point system would be fairer Warren. If the vehicle does not have the right engine number it looses a point same for chassis No ect.
The winner would still be the most original one with the most points.
I remember seeing a video some time ago about a company in the USA that restores cars for concours compititions for customers.
These guys would rechrome everything even if it wasnt needed, make new ID plates, replace every nut,bolt and washer with new ones. They would even pull all the gauges apart and have all the faces reproduced or repainted..You name it they replaced, restored or remade it.
Their claim was that the vehicles were better than when they were new. . . .But how original are they?
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Personally I was happy with the opoint system, but if we want to ensure that a car with the wrong engine does not win, then my suggestion would need to be implimented. This would also ensure less come to the nationals.
As for the judging, if the sugestion was implemented there would be no judging, as any standard Monaro with books, chassis and engine would win, as they are very rare.
So as the nationals is a Monaro club event, unless you are in a Monaro club do you really have any right to comment?
I hope that many come to the nationals, enjoy both the event and the show and shine. The Queensland club has asked for the services of both Ben Stewart and myself (so for those that think I am incompetent, Ben can be the insurance), to ensure stock classes are run correctly.
The modified classes are to be judged by a seperate organisation.
These should help put minds at ease.
Warren
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I think it was the late Geoff Polites(ford boss at the time) that said, There now exists more GT Falcons than ford built!This statement highlights the problems with judging at a national event. Our hobby,funny how it is now a hobby, I always thought flying model planes was a hobby but I suppose there are ****ers in that hobby too. The Monaro Nationals is a club event and all entrants have to abide by the rules.
Did any of the place getters not comply with the rules under which they had entered. If they did will all the Judge Judys please name them now or forever hold there peace. HEY heres an idea if your worried about rules email a certain promoter and I use that term lightly who like santa only turns up once a year to explain some of their judgeing results.
Our cars will never reach the resto level of the yanks.They have resto shops that only restore one model! Who does that in Australia?
If we have cars ie monaros that are of a suitable standard are they paid an appearance fee to turn up at the nationals. I know if I paid 250k for the best monaro in Australia I would want to be paid to let all the bogans oogle the ID tags. insert disclaimer(When I bought my first monaro I also owned a mullet,flano shirt,strech jeans,windfield reds and kb beer)
Back to the point as Warren said the Nationals are a club event a time to get together and enjoy monaros,check out the cars,cruise,race and enjoy the fun monaros are even the four doors lol.
Note to we wreck,why do you drag race if you dont like rules,drag racing has so many rules it makes you dizzy. I use to have 2 hk 81837 fed one to the crusher now the other one is worth more!
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quote:
Originally posted by BREDBO
Note to we wreck,why do you drag race if you dont like rules,drag racing has so many rules it makes you dizzy. I use to have 2 hk 81837 fed one to the crusher now the other one is worth more!
Ummmmm, I never have once whinged about rules of any sort, be it in here, or in everyday life, i might whinge, but never have i broken any rules, end of story... even in the drag racing we do, we gotta adhere to the rules, simply, but what i do not like is one rule for some, and another rule fro others. i have a go at matching numbers, over restored cotton wool cars are are never enjoyed, and i agree, id want good money to let some shmuck measure the diameter of the grain on the vinyl on my HO..
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Hang out enough bait you get quality fish.lol. I didnt say you cheated,just a healthy disregard of authority.Don,t get this drag race thing tried it once 8.03 secs and it was all over, finished, done. Told the officals if I wanted 8 secs of fun I would have stayed home with the girlfriend.
By the way how big is the grain on the seats of that HO. Bet someone knows,depends what month of course.
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quote:
Originally posted by BREDBO
Hang out enough bait you get quality fish.lol. I didnt say you cheated,just a healthy disregard of authority.Don,t get this drag race thing tried it once 8.03 secs and it was all over, finished, done. Told the officals if I wanted 8 secs of fun I would have stayed home with the girlfriend.
By the way how big is the grain on the seats of that HO. Bet someone knows,depends what month of course.
meeooowwwwwwww, you didnt get me, had a sniff and, lifted me tail, and went to the other hand that looked like it offered me sumfin better..hehe...haha
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