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jlangley666 Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, 12 July 2009 9:05:25 PM(UTC)
jlangley666

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I finally got my custom camshaft back from crowcams. I designed this one partially for my VK EFI "As you cant get a replacement VK EFI camshaft with the same specs as the genuine factory camshaft", but also because I want to use the motor/gearbox/running gear in an older holden that's in better condition. I'm also planning shortly, running a single or twin 2" SU jaguar carbies that I have, and even possibly add a supercharger to it. My camshaft specs are as per below:

Inlet. 15/75 .420thou lift. Duration 270
Exhaust. 60/30 .440thou lift. Duration 270

No, it isn't an XU-1 bathurst race cam, but why would I want it to be like that???

The reason that the inlet duration is so long, is for the fact that the long runners on the EFI intake require a longer opening frame to operate more efficiently, and this will suit my other ideas in the near future i.e. Tunnel-ram or supercharging. Just want to make the engine breathe!.

The reasonably short duration of the exhaust is designed to still give me a good idle with very slightly increased dynamic compression. Also helps in the performance department.

When I submitted this data to oldholden.com, I was treated like a heretic or a whipping boy, and all the idiot's "clowns" came out to play. I received ridiculous comments like "It's not exactly an XU-1 cam" and "what you think that you're some kind of a genius, Langley", and comments of the alike. For some reason, and according to most of them the VK EFI is a pathetic platform to use and it's been quoted that they're more of a "Punch-drunk motor, rather than punchy!". another un-informed comment that I had received during my research endeavours. It is a shame that, becuse they have had such bad luck with their setups, they automatically assume that everyone's setup is also s*** without ever doing their research or seeing what others have done with the setup. Strangely enough across the road from my dad's house "when I was a teen", the blokes who lived there had a very sweet VK 202 with EFI and they were total revv-heads. They were always blowing diffs, and for people to say the setup is pissweak and lacks potential "in my views" is totally wrong, and those blokes who had/have the know-how would totally agree with me.
They failed to realise that I wasn't building an XU-1 red motor for bathurst, or some kind of dragway car. If I wanted that I would get a e49-spec motor from Hemi-performance $7500 with tripple webers, back it with a great 5-speed and install the whole setup in something light-framed i.e. a litle rana' or something simmilar. I just wanted to build a motor with increased raw torque/reliability and compression for highway cruising and towing. I was building a motor to my own specs & for my own application, not someone else's. The motor would be useless to me, if it drives like a pig and is only any good from 3,000 rev's upwards from there.

But enough of that,

The block was a donor 3.3L blue, which had to be bored out 60thou, because it was already at 40thou and just out of runout. I used Flat-top pistons for the extra compression gain, and used an ACL Race rebuild kit to put the motor together. i.e. Gaskets. Instead of using the ACL Race head gasket though, I decided to use a 1mm copperhead gasket. As they are a more reliable gasket to use and are also reusable.

I used a JP helical timing kit, as they are not noisy and more reliable than straight-cuts. They also wear-down less.

The cylinder head I used was a 2.86Blue high compression head, that has been mass-ported and set for unleaded. It has larger tuftrided valves and new valve-stem guides. 1.7" intake valves & 1.5" exhaust valves. I am currently using stock standard rockers, but I am planning on using harley-davidson studs so I can use independent roller rockers as soon as I can setup some kind of guide plate for the pushrods. Using roller-rockers will extend the cylinder head life via the valve-stem guides and make easier work for the whole valve-train setup. It will also give it an even smoother idle.


I had also installed a flashlube metered kit for added top-end protection. Better to be safe than sorry!.

I finally installed the camshaft yesterday, and fired the engine up. Success!!. It runs an absolute treat. The throttle response is very peaky, and the engine takes-off like a shot. Idles so damn smoothly. Seems to have heaps of low-down power as well as mid-range. I would have to say that this was the best holden 6 that I have built to date!. I'm very impressed with it.

The next phase for me may be to tackle the delco conversion, and see where it takes me from there.

I wrote this post so that it would be future reference to myself and others who are serious about building a good strong "almost stock" EFI 202 at low cost!. I really hope that this info will be helpful to someone out-there, and if it even helps just one young-bloke with his build, i'm happy.

It's good to see here, that people on this fastlane site are more experienced, more open minded and are not so negative as per their views on 202's and the VK EFI system. We all know the system is basic, but the best thing is that we also all know that there's room for improvement, and that there's plenty of fellow blokes here whom are willing to share their tech info & experience regarding to this system.

Thanks guys for your help so-far. You've been more than helpful!

Cheers!

My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
peter_flane Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, 12 July 2009 10:04:08 PM(UTC)
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Good on ya Langley for taking the time to present your opinions, findings, information and writing it all up in a way that explains it all.

I have a 3.3 also, and I will add that once you add a supercharger, be aware that the cam needs to be changed also. I had a custom cam made up by Crow for my 3.3 once supercharged, and the cam was described as having more lobe separation to suit the supercharger application.

http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
jlangley666 Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, 12 July 2009 10:23:56 PM(UTC)
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Hey Peter,
Thanks for your comments regarding my post.

Your EH Limo looks awesome!!! ;)

I started with my VK berlina, which I brought for $200 with 3 months rego. My mate got a newer VX and couldnt keep the rego up on 2 cars, so he sold the VK to me cheap. Ive only had to replace the rear wheel cylinders and drum shoes "hand brake adjustment also", and adjust the idle revs to keep the thing running, so far. So it has been a good tow vehicle for the old man to use "Tip runs". I guess my mate was looking after me also. AS I progress with my motor, I will update my posts and information regarding it all. Ive got a few ideas for the motor and gearbox. I was planning on installing the motor into my UC torana, but due to some rust issues, ive decided not to do it, because long-term it wouldnt be practical as it is unregistered "sitting at dads", and getting it re regod "& transport approved" would cost thousands in repair work first. I have spotted a great VC SL/E that I can buy for $800 that I know the history on, but I would also have to investigate further as to whether that would be worth the hassles. i.e. check the boot and chasis-line for rust. and being that it is also unregistered, it would be more of a long term project. Because my partner and I are constantly moving from place to place "renting private", we was thinking that it would be most practical to buy a registered VH wagon thats nice and tidy and work from there. Just deciding whether I should get the auto-trans fully recod and then transfer the lot into a VH wagon and maybe do the efi conversion, or even easier, make an inlet manifold to support either 1 x 2" SU or 2 x 2" SU carbs. It might be almost comparable to EFI performance, but im not sure. I will have to experiment and see what happens.

Also, thanks for the advice. I will have to research further about the supercharging idea. I would think that the intake lobes would have to be reasonably wide to get the maximum benefits, but I will have to research further. Once I find out, I will post it up on here also.

Cheers!

My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
jlangley666 Offline
#4 Posted : Sunday, 12 July 2009 10:53:37 PM(UTC)
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My dad was talking to me earlier with his other speedway mate about setting-up the single 2" SU idea. My dads mate has done simmilar builds for his professional racing with great success. Reckons the 2" SU would work a treat on my new motor. He was saying that if I make the manifold and powertune one of those carbies, it could even surpass the EFI in performance, would be more stable and less hassles than the EFI, and also have the manual choke setup on there. They were saying that it would be more practical if I was to convert the VK motor and gearbox into a VH wagon, as it would be less hassles and would only take a few hours or so to changeover the whole motor and box. If I changeover the EFI system, it could take some time and could come a cropper on some things, as I currently have never done one of these changeovers yet.

I have had a lot of success in making things simpler and more efficient. Ive owned a few VC & VH commodores, and the first thing I do is remove the varajet setup, weld up the headers so they look/respond like x2 headers, and sometimes have fitted extractors, and have ran 202 stromberg carbs on the motors just by aluminium welding 1" of aluminium around the flanges and then dressing to shape/size and mildly ported out the manifold.

It really seems to be a great permanent fix for the varajet issues that everbody has when obtaining an old stock commodore. Ive noticed when done correctly, the motor will idle much better and throttle response is also improved greatly.

I find when things are simplified i.e. removing anti-pollution gear, things just seem to run better and better. I remember the first VH wagon that my dad owned. He just done it basic. 30thou flat-top piston rebuild. Heaps of work on the head. Single-barrel on the 3.3 blue, and a modified straight-through 202 exhaust system, like on the HQs. His wagon was quite fast with the stock 4-speed and from the inside of the wgaon, you couldnt even hear the engine running. Most of the time at the traffic lights, he would key the car over thinking that itd stalled whilst the engine was still running. lol. Motorwise it was a beaut. My dad used to love that wagon. It was great until several years later when the engine was getting tired/old, he got the head recod by gorringes in Tasmania. Id never seen such a terrible job. They totalled the head, and when he went to collect it, they had the cheek to say "no charge". When really, he shouldve charged them. The head had previously been worked so well, that the valves were almost touching one-another, and it had had one of the best port jobs that I had ever seen, Even the seperators in the port section of the head were chamfered beautifully. Apparently when he took the head in, some guy had rheamed in massively oversized vavlestem guides in the head, and they couldnt get valves to suit ;(. So they told the old man that the head was a write off. Dads been so heart-broken ever since, and hes never brought another holden since that date. I guess now, because of his age and the financial strains of setting up another one, its not worth the hassles of him building another machine, which really sucks ;(.

The day he lost that head "due to those pricks" was the day he lost his happiness ;(.

My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
My car is my lady, and she always makes me crazy!!!
commodorenut Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 1:37:36 AM(UTC)
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""I just wanted to build a motor with increased raw torque/reliability and compression for highway cruising and towing.""

I know exactly what you mean about the opinions of others, and having them try to push you away from your goal. I wanted the same thing when I built my first Holden 6, at the age of 18, for a VC SL/E. The number of puzzled looks I got from suppliers.... Even the cam place asked me why I didnt want an XU-1 spec cam.....

I think youve achieved your objective perfectly.

Those of us who have owned EFI VKs know how good the 3.3L EFI is - the throttle response is great. I didnt really think the Nissan 3L in the VL was that much better than the VK EFI. By todays standards, it is bordering on becoming a dinosaur, but in its day, it was equal to the performance alloytec of today.



Cheers,

Mick
_______________________________________________________________

Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Cheers,

Mick
_______________________________________________________________

Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Grue Pugg Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 2:26:47 AM(UTC)
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you should write a book about it

oh, you already did
80737k Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 3:08:10 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Grue Pugg
you should write a book about it

oh, you already did


Yep, hes a manic little bugger, lol.
Fossil fuels are YUMMY !
Dr Terry Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 4:20:02 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by 80737k
Truth of the matter is that your a cockhead Jangles; A diffrent approach would have netted you a warmer response no doubt.

http://oldholden.com/comment/reply/73759/348859

I dont get it. What has jlangley666 done or said to be termed a cockhead.

Seems like some people should watch their language.

Mr jlangley666 seems quite polite in his approach.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
davequey74 Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 4:29:28 AM(UTC)
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"Mr jlangley666 seems quite polite in his approach" well here maybe, but hes been very rude and bosko like over at oldholden
we wreck 81837s only Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 4:57:27 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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why does everyone take things so seriously tho?????

"We wreck = KNOWLEDGE" lolololol
we wreck 81837s only Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 5:00:11 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
quote:
Originally posted by 80737k
Truth of the matter is that your a cockhead Jangles; A diffrent approach would have netted you a warmer response no doubt.

http://oldholden.com/comment/reply/73759/348859

I dont get it. What has jlangley666 done or said to be termed a cockhead.

Seems like some people should watch their language.

Mr jlangley666 seems quite polite in his approach.

Dr Terry






DOC!!

How are you?? where ya been?? havent see ya put up a post for ages..

"We wreck = KNOWLEDGE" lolololol
Dr Terry Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 5:55:43 AM(UTC)
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Hi we wreck. Im goin pretty well, how are you yourself ?

Ive actually posted several times in the last week, but I have been busy, end of the financial year & all that.

But having said that, many topics & posts on the forum lately have been crap. Mostly, one bloke having a go at another, for no apparent reason. Where have all the techo queries gone. You know, where somebody asks a legitimate question about a Holden & somebody else actually gives a straight answer or attempts to help out in some way. Isnt that what we are here for ?

Also can we leave eBay alone & forget that it exists. If somebody wants to ask or pay $50,000 for a pile of scrap metal let em go. I find eBay to be a pathetic & hopeless rip-off (as a seller especially) & I think if people ignore it, it might disappear.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Uncle Bob Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 6:35:48 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by 80737k
Truth of the matter is that your a cockhead Jangles; A diffrent approach would have netted you a warmer response no doubt.

http://oldholden.com/comment/reply/73759/348859


And you my friend are an absolute MORON.

Not only did you cut and paste a page that doesnt open but for someone with 955 posts you would think you would know better.

And who is the knuckle head that deleted my account.

I DID NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS.


Thankyou.
Regards Bob Randolf.
80737k Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:04:55 AM(UTC)
80737k

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quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob
quote:
Originally posted by 80737k
Truth of the matter is that your a cockhead Jangles; A diffrent approach would have netted you a warmer response no doubt.

http://oldholden.com/comment/reply/73759/348859


And you my friend are an absolute MORON.

Not only did you cut and paste a page that doesnt open but for someone with 955 posts you would think you would know better.

And who is the knuckle head that deleted my account.

I DID NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS.


Thankyou.


The fella seemed at a loss as to why he got razzed at oldholden, just helped him out with it.

Im a moron but you cant open a straight forward link ? lol, Okay, i can live with that.... moving on.
Fossil fuels are YUMMY !
Uncle Bob Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:07:48 AM(UTC)
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You click on it and it doesnt open.

Cant display page.



Best Regards Bob.
Regards Bob Randolf.
80737k Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:21:45 AM(UTC)
80737k

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quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob
You click on it and it doesnt open.

Cant display page.



Best Regards Bob.


Well i cant help with it Bob, when it comes to puters i AM a moron, lol, but the link works for me.
Fossil fuels are YUMMY !
Uncle Bob Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:24:10 AM(UTC)
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He posted a relative story to this site and an interesting one at that.

You are obviously not a Holden enthusiast otherwise you would have appreciated what he had to say.

Very rude of you.

Best Regards Bob.
Regards Bob Randolf.
davequey74 Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:42:10 AM(UTC)
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the link works for me?
gts308 Offline
#19 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 11:26:32 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by jlangley666
Inlet. 15/75 .420thou lift. Duration 270
Exhaust. 60/30 .440thou lift. Duration 270


mmm Interesting! What lobe seperation did you get?



"We are but a grain of sand on the beach of life"
"We are but a grain of sand on the beach of life"
80569K Offline
#20 Posted : Monday, 13 July 2009 7:57:41 PM(UTC)
80569K

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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
Hi we wreck. Im goin pretty well, how are you yourself ?

Ive actually posted several times in the last week, but I have been busy, end of the financial year & all that.

But having said that, many topics & posts on the forum lately have been crap. Mostly, one bloke having a go at another, for no apparent reason. Where have all the techo queries gone. You know, where somebody asks a legitimate question about a Holden & somebody else actually gives a straight answer or attempts to help out in some way. Isnt that what we are here for ?

Also can we leave eBay alone & forget that it exists. If somebody wants to ask or pay $50,000 for a pile of scrap metal let em go. I find eBay to be a pathetic & hopeless rip-off (as a seller especially) & I think if people ignore it, it might disappear.

Dr Terry



Dr Terry,

Whilst I tend to agree with you, to my mind some discussion about ebay is warranted. I personally have learnt quite a lot just by reading some of the replies.

And yes, technical merit should be the basis here, however, all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. I know in my case that I like to respond in kind if someone has a shot at me, having said that I also agree that personal insults should be deleted asap. I would have thought that it was the job of the moderators to remove the offensive, the boring and the inane.

Bob.
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