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HK1837 Offline
#21 Posted : Wednesday, 26 August 2009 6:55:12 AM(UTC)
HK1837

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Ah yes, I didnt think about 1984. So used to 1970s stuff. So WB or VK.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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hq ss Offline
#22 Posted : Wednesday, 26 August 2009 8:34:27 AM(UTC)
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Chrome yella with your rebuilt box there is a good chance that unless you asked for you own box to be repaired you just got a exchange unit back instead of your box.
Hence the later date code.
The one groove two groove thing is not to be trusted as even Holden genuine M21 input shafts could have either one or two grooves as shown in this picture.



The two on the right are genuine items.
HK1837
Do you know where the aussie boxs were actually made, I am assuming it was Fishermens Bend but I would like to be sure on that one.
Cheers Paul.

Edited by user Wednesday, 26 August 2009 8:35:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, 26 August 2009 4:12:02 PM(UTC)
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I was talking to Dr Terry about this the other day, not on 4spds but steering boxes. He believes Aussie boxes (4spd, 3spd, trimatic, probably crash boxes) plus manual steering boxes were all built at Woodville. The need for this stuff was all over by the end of VK/WB apart from the odd VL V8 trimatic, hence why that plant ceased operation.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
chrome yella Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, 26 August 2009 10:36:00 PM(UTC)
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thanks Guys for the info, yes its a shame the case was changed as i like date correct items, at least the 9c4 numbers about right. The numbers i gave you should be a great indication of aussies built as there is 8 days between them and 1127 in # which makes you wonder if they were done in batches and stamped before any assembly took place
hq ss Offline
#25 Posted : Thursday, 27 August 2009 7:11:49 AM(UTC)
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Chrome yella
I was curious about if they were made in batches as well but if they were there so far does not seem to be on a certain day of the month that stands out as this happening, because it seems to be spread over all days so far.(this is very early days to say that because as more details come in it may paint a very different picture.)
But either way that 1127 in 6 days is interesting to compare to a similar example I have now from June 1973.
7_6_73 to 15_6_73 ___ 1074 in 8 days
15_6_73 to 19_6_73 ___ 2024 in 4 days
I still have details coming in but rough monthly figures are around the 10000+ units per month in the early 70s to 2000 or less in the early 80s.
I am just wondering if they actually got to make the 1 millionth aussie box or not.
Cheers Paul.
hq ss Offline
#26 Posted : Thursday, 27 August 2009 7:30:47 AM(UTC)
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HK1837.
That is interesting is I have only found mentions of foundry work as being at the Fishermens bend plants.
The 1947 mention of the mechanical fabrication, engine and transmission manufacture and foundry facilities at Fishermens Bend.
The grey iron foundry, the nodular iron foundry are both mentioned as being there.

And the only other mention of gearbox related things is the 1966 mention of the Australian-made torque converter production commences at Dandenong and then the 1970 mention of the opening of the Woodville, SA trimatic plant.



This was from from some information Holden put out before and I have extracted the plant related information from it, this is what I have come across on that side of things.


1947
* 1,200,000 is spent on mechanical fabrication, engine and transmission manufacture and foundry facilities at Fishermens Bend.
* 750,000 is spent on fabrication equipment, presses and a new paint shop at Woodville, S.A.
* Over 300 Australian supplier companies gear up to fulfill Holden contracts for materials, parts, components and services.



1950
* GM-H acquires a Port Melbourne company to manufacture Holden electrical harness, electric components and AC Spark Plugs.



1952
* On Holdens fourth birthday, GM-H announces an 11 million expansion program designed to raise output to 200 units a day.
Melbourne, Sydney and Adelaide plants are to be enlarged and modernised, production efficiency and quality levels lifted.



1955
* 2,152 acres of land are selected at Lang Lang, Victoria, and plans to construct a modern and completely equipped proving ground
- Australias first - commence.
* Work begins on the Dandenong (Vic) plant.


1956
* The new Dandenong body and assembly plant opens.


1957
* The Lang Lang proving ground commences operations in August.
* The one millionth car body is produced at the Woodville plant.
* NASCO parts operation commences at Dandenong.


1958
* A 9 million expansion of plant and manufacturing facilities, aimed at increasing annual production to 125,000 units,
is announced. Planning of a new facility at Elizabeth, S.A., begins.
* Work begins on a banked, circular high-speed test track at the Lang Lang proving ground.


1959
* New Body Hardware plant at Elizabeth (S.A.) begins production.



1962
* A new body assembly plant opens at Elizabeth, a new 6-cylinder engine plant at Fishermens Bend nears completion.


1963
* The new engine plant and foundry commence operations at Fishermens Bend; capacity is 700 engines a day.
* Further expansion plans, with a 175,000 annual production target, are announced.
* Elizabeth (SA) trim assembly plant and paint shop commence operations.


1964
* GM-H employee total reaches 23,914
* A new Technical Centre opens at Fishermens Bend. It houses over 900 designers, engineers, draftsmen, modellers,
technicians and skilled tradesmen and provides state-of-the-art automotive design and development facilities.
* Trim fabrication plant commences operation at Elizabeth (SA).
* Construction of Acacia Ridge (Qld) plant commences.


1965
* A new, mechanised grey iron foundry at Fishermens Bend begins pouring.


1966
* Investment in expansion continues. Vehicle assembly at the Acacia Ridge, Qld, plant commences.
* Australian-made torque converter production commences at Dandenong.


1967
* New nodular iron foundry, officially opened by Prime Minister Harold Holt, commences production at Fishermens Bend.
* Safety Design Test Centre at Lang Lang proving ground and automatic transmission plant announced;
# new electroplating plant opens at Woodville (SA).


1968
* Torana bodies are made in Australia for the first time.
* Work progresses on a V8 engine plant at Fishermens Bend.
* More than 4,000 Australian companies are supplying Holden with components, materials and services.


1969
* Australias first automotive Safety Design Test Centre opens at Lang Lang proving ground, complete with barrier test and
Hyge sled facilities.
* A V8 engine manufacturing plant opens at Fishermens Bend.
The first Australian-made V8, developed at a cost of $22.5 million,is exhibited in the advanced, mid-engined Holden Hurricane
experimental car.
* Automatic transmission production commences.


1970
* A $16.5 million Tri-Matic automatic transmission plant, Holdens first, opens at Woodville, SA.


1971
* The GM-H national parts distribution complex opens at Dandenong (Vic).


1976
* General Motors celebrates 50 years in Australia.
* GM-H confirms plans to manufacture 4-cylinder engines at Fishermens Bend.


1979

* Holden announces a $300 million expansion plan, which includes a new 4-cylinder engine plant and foundry modernization program
at Fishermens Bend.
* A $6.7 million program to enable assembly of Commodore at the Elizabeth (SA) plant is announced in August.


1980
* Commodore assembly ceases at Pagewood (NSW) plant in August. Commodore production to be concentrated at Dandenong (Vic)
and Elizabeth (SA) plants.
* GM-H opens a new Management & Technical Education Training Centre in Melbourne.



1981
* Holdens new engine plant is commissioned and begins production of Family II four-cylinder engines.


1985
* A single point tool body assembly shuttle is introduced at the Elizabeth manufacturing facility.

But this is only one source of information and I always like to get several sources for this sort of thing.
Cheers Paul.
HK1837 Offline
#27 Posted : Thursday, 27 August 2009 4:13:59 PM(UTC)
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It was only a theory, but possibly the castings were done at Fishermans bend and machining and manufacture at Woodville?

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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Jim5.0 Offline
#28 Posted : Thursday, 27 August 2009 8:38:02 PM(UTC)
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Reading that timeline is a sad reflection on Australian manufacturing.

All but two of those factories are gone and do Holden employ anywhere near 23,914 Australians as they did back in 1964?


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hq ss Offline
#29 Posted : Friday, 28 August 2009 6:49:49 AM(UTC)
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Hi Guys.
HK1837 that is the basics I have but it does not give you a full run down on all of this stuff at all.
That was why I was interested to see if you had any other information on these things as well.
It came from this
http://media.gm.com/aus/...history_milestones.html
timeline on the GM web site.
It is a interesting read to see how far things progressed for Holden in Australia and as I said I have removed a lot of information from out of the document.

Jim 30000 seems to be the peak in employees but then they stop listing the amounts, whether that is because they started to decline or not I do not know.

I did notice that in 1965 Australian content exceeds 95 per cent and I have been told that the
HQ local content was 92.7% and the 6cyl HQ was 99.3% local content.
Going by the fact that when I do major suspension repairs on the likes of the VY etc, that the parts are made in 8 different countries now I somehow doubt that they are anywhere near these figures now.
Cheers Paul
lxtoranahzute Offline
#30 Posted : Monday, 7 September 2009 1:31:40 AM(UTC)
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I picked up a 4 speed from a swap meet and the date code is 24e8 with holden 8 in cast and the serial No. T829916.I was told it was in a worked fc and the slave cylinder on the cluch has been modified or bodged up.Thats all i can tell you.

Edited by user Monday, 7 September 2009 1:39:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

hq ss Offline
#31 Posted : Monday, 7 September 2009 3:43:11 AM(UTC)
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lxtoranahzute thanks for the details.
From the date code of 24E8 I can tell you it was originally cast on the 24th of may 1978.
So HZ or I think LX Torana. ( It may even have been UC by then as I am not sure with the later Torana production dates)
Cheers Paul.
Dr Terry Offline
#32 Posted : Monday, 7 September 2009 4:25:28 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by hq ss
lxtoranahzute thanks for the details.
From the date code of 24E8 I can tell you it was originally cast on the 24th of may 1978.
So HZ or I think LX Torana. ( It may even have been UC by then as I am not sure with the later Torana production dates)
Cheers Paul.
Yes, it will be HZ or UC. UC Toranas were released in March 78.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
lxtoranahzute Offline
#33 Posted : Friday, 25 September 2009 11:09:24 PM(UTC)
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no prob guys
hkute68 Offline
#34 Posted : Sunday, 17 January 2010 4:03:23 AM(UTC)
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hey guys
i have a so called m20 box with the left side showing f111 with a 4 cast also and the right side having 7433771 with 12 cast and T293126 also around the side of that number 007.
what would this have come from and what is it?.i cant get the cluster gears yet,maybe at a later date.first and second gear seem very short would like to get it rebuilt.any help would be great.
hq ss Offline
#35 Posted : Sunday, 17 January 2010 6:20:10 AM(UTC)
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I cannot tell you what is inside it but F 11 1 means it was cast on 11th June 1971.
So very late HG early HQ or LC Torana.
I am still trying to confirm it but I suspect the 4 and the 7 are casting times.
7433771 is a early style side cover casting number.
Cheers Paul.
Absinth Offline
#36 Posted : Sunday, 17 January 2010 7:13:28 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by chrome yella
i was bolting the gearmount on the first box #1c4 T963729 and noticed that 18 84 had been stamped into the back of the alloy ext housing.


Would the 18 84 be the gearbox assembly date ie. 18th week 1984? 10 weeks from casting to machining to assembly seems a lot though.
hq ss Offline
#37 Posted : Sunday, 17 January 2010 11:00:55 AM(UTC)
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I am not to sure on this code, I have not checked any of my boxs as yet for this stamped marking.
So I have no other references other than this one.
I only have 2 cases that I have car build dates for and these are miles apart.
One is a Xu1 with around 6 weeks between cast and finish date for the car.
The other is a GTR and it only has 5 days between cast and finish date of the car.
Both of these cars were completed within 3 days of each other.
I need lots more details to actually get a clear picture of what was going on but I have wondered if they did regular batch,s or if it was just as required.
For example in June 1973 I have the 7th, 15th, 19th and the 30th date codes listed.
Between the 7th and the 15th there is a 1074 numbers difference in the serial numbers.
Between the 15th and the 19th there is a 2024 numbers difference in the serial numbers.
Between the 19th and the 30th there is a 3210 numbers difference in the serial numbers.
So a minimum of 6000 units serial numbered in one month.
The problem is I do not know when they received the serial number.
I suspect that it will be after all machine work is done and the case/gearbox has been built.
Now if the engine numbers and build dates we have now for HQ SSs are any indication as to how much the numbering system can jump around.
For example
Cars built on the same day, 2 at one plant and 2 others made at other plants.
QR207xxx SS 24/8/72 build Adelaide.
3600 engine numbers difference.
QR210xxx SS 24/8/72 build Melbourne.
900 engine numbers difference.
QR211xxx SS 24/8/72 build Melbourne.
1800 engine numbers difference.
QR213xxx SS 24/8/72 build Sydney.

The engines from the different plants I can expect to have differences from the Melbourne plant because of delivery times.
But 900 numbers different from the same day at the same plant.(But this could be because they are from a different batch of engines.)
But this is actually quite close compared to some others.

QR257xxx SS 5/12/72 Build A
2300 engine numbers difference.
QR260xxx SS 5/12/72 build A
4100 engine numbers difference on a car built 1 day later.
QR256xxx SS 6/12/72 Build A
So is the same thing happening with the box casings.
It could help explain the Torana casings one from the beginning of one batch and one from the end of another batch.
I am hoping that the more details I get the clearer the picture will become.
Cheers Paul.
hq ss Offline
#38 Posted : Sunday, 17 January 2010 11:38:39 AM(UTC)
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I just came across this picture.


and it sure does give you a idea as to why the engine number jumped around so much in the build dates of vehicles.
Going by the amount of engines here I assume that it is for the beginning of the red motor range in the EHs.
Cheers Paul

Edited by user Sunday, 17 January 2010 12:21:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Squeak327 Offline
#39 Posted : Monday, 21 May 2012 9:03:30 AM(UTC)
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hq ss,

doing some tidying up and recalled your request for gearbox nos.

I have a V8 M20 out of a Commodore
Serial No is T957627
Unfortunately, the date code casting is very poor and the day and month nos/letter are illegible but if I had to put money on it, I reckon the digit for the year is probably a 2 (1982).
The no on the side plate is 9938391
Stencilled on the case in yellow paint are the letters ZD

The other one is a 3 speed all syncro - I was told out of a HK. It is the smooth case version.
Serial no. is interesting given it is only 4 digits and the 'T' is in a different font:

Date Code is interesting too as it is not in 'code' :

Until I saw this, I had always thought cast dates on Holden components were coded.
The no. on the side plate is 7433771.

gmholdman Offline
#40 Posted : Monday, 21 May 2012 6:36:56 PM(UTC)
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Hi all, I worked at F/Bend in the 70s-80s-90s and can assure you 4 speed gear boxes were manufactured and assembled there and transported by road interstate.
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