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HK1837 Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 23 December 2009 1:25:08 AM(UTC)
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All

A few questions that someone out there may be able to answer.

1. HQ Dandenong (Melbourne) vans. Does anyone here own or know of a HQ van constructed in the Dandenong plant? Like Pagewood, HJ-HZ vans constructed in this plant used Elizabeth (Adelaide) bodies. However I have never seen a Dandenong HQ van. Pagewood built its own HQ van shells, so maybe Dandenong did too (or not at all)?

2. 1978 ADR plate and later HZ commercials out of Dandenong and Pagewood. Anyone ever seen one? I have never seen and recorded a HZ Sandman from Pagewood or Dandenong after 12/77, so not sure if any utes or vans were assembled at these plants after 12/77.

3. HZ Sandman ute from Dandenong. I've never found one of these. I have 1 x HX Dandenong ute recorded, but no HZ's.

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Mr.Jones Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 23 December 2009 5:45:05 AM(UTC)
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1. The earliest HQ Dandenong van I have is Feb 72 J319966 6cyl fleet vehicle Silverpine Green but it has Adel body 1058A. None of those I have recorded are all Melb only Adel/Melb. The highest Adel HQ body no. I have is 127727A with a chassis of 63111A which means half of the Adel production was sent else where, Perth accounts for around 13000, did the other 50000 vans and tonners go to Melb + exports?
2. The one and only HZ van from Pagewood have was a Sept 77 H934774 I have no other details apart from the colour and engine.
3. All the HZ commercials (9) from Dandenong I have are vans and the latest one is Nov 77 with a chassis no. of around 400.

cheers Leroy

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HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 23 December 2009 4:21:35 PM(UTC)
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Leroy

Excellent. All I needed was evidence of a Dandenong assembled HQ van, and the fact it was an Adelaide body is great.
Maybe there are also Toranas in that 50000 body numbers also?
Your HZ records reflect my info. I suspect HZ commercial assembly stopped in Pagewood and Dandenong at the end of 1977.

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Mr.Jones Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 24 December 2009 2:34:54 AM(UTC)
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Having had a quick look at some 73 Torana body plates I think you might be onto something with the Torana bodies added to the HQ body numbers. 73 Bathurst cars have body numbers in the 80k region (and chassis no. around 28k), which lines up with HQ body numbers for the same period.

The number of commercial bodies sent elsewhere then drops to between 3-10k which sounds a more reasonable number.

Anyone have a late 73 or early 74 Adel LJ with the original chassis no.

Leroy

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HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 24 December 2009 2:42:12 AM(UTC)
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Ive asked the question over at GMH-torana to see what they have for their Elizabeth LC and LJs. 3-10k of Dandenong HQ vans, tonners and export HQs from Elizabeth seems more feasible.

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hq ss Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 24 December 2009 11:39:18 AM(UTC)
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Hi Guys.
I have had a look through some of the Adelaide early 1973 Torana Vins and this is what I found.
Feb 73 L2
31390
86 gap (HQS?)
31476
71 Toranas
31547
166 gap
31713
124 Toranas
31837
85 gap
31922
69 Toranas
31991
91 gap
32082
70 Toranas
32152
90 gap
32242
428 Toranas
32670
106 Gap
32776
257 Toranas
33033
104 gap
33137 3/73
428 Toranas
33565
120 Gap
33685
76 Toranas
33761
105 gap In this gap I have a HQ vin 33858
33866
75 Toranas
33941
105 Gap In this gap I have a HQ vin 34029
34046
This is just a small sample and the HQs drop in perfectly with the gaps in the Torana vins.
So at least with the vin numbers they were shared between the Toranas and the HQs.
Were there any other vehicles that were made at the plant as well.
If so this could reduce the suspected HQ numbers a little bit more.
I have just done a quick check of SS vins and I highest I saw was 6 consecutive SS vins and they fit perfectly in to the gaps.
This also seems to work with Perth HQ vins as well.
Cheers Paul
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hq ss Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 24 December 2009 12:32:02 PM(UTC)
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Just reading the post on GMH Torana
HK1837 the 127727A body is a 6cyl kingswood sdn so the total Leroy is talking about is the full model
production number.
The 63111A chassis number is also from that car.
If I read what Leroy posted correctly they were just to show the discrepancy between Adelaide body numbers and chassis numbers.

The Torana body numbers posted on GMHT match with the HQs I have at that time.
7/73 805xx HQ
8/73 850xx Torana
10/73 907xx Torana
11/73 940xxA HQ
11/73 955xx Torana
12/73 968xxA HQ
This makes sense to me why the combined Total of early HQs I had roughly worked out did not add up to the new style body numbers that seem to have started in June 73.
The lowest new style body number I have at the change over is 76378-A.
Here are a few rough totals prior to June 73
4733 6cyl Belmont Vans 4/1973
8684 6cyl Belmont Utes 5/1973
5836 6cyl kingswood back in 6/72
1670 V8 Kingswoods/GTSs 5/1973
1672 6cyl Belmont sdns 9/1972
488 V8 Belmont sdns 12/1972
1386 6cyl Premier sdns 3/1973
3564 Statesman Deville,s 4/1973
That is not all but roughly 28000 HQ,s just from those listed ones.
So prior to that 76378 bodys were made of them around 13000 were Perth cars going by chassis numbers and around 29000 Adelaide completed vehicles going by chassis numbers which leaves a discrepancy of 42000 Bodys.
So add Torana production on over that and the 76378-A Body number is getting closer.
So after June 73 there were 63600 odd more Adelaide vehicle bodys made.
Adelaide/ Melbourne HQ,s, Toranas and others ?
Cheers Paul.

Edited by user Thursday, 24 December 2009 12:40:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 24 December 2009 5:59:20 PM(UTC)
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Yes Paul, that is exactly what Leroy means ie there are a lot more Elizabeth BODY numbers than there are HQ chassis numbers. I always believed the BODY number on later Elizabeth HQs was the total HQ production from Elizabeth (and it included the cars prior to PSN L242000 where the BODY number was luxury level/shape/engine configuration specific), however that doesnt make sense. So it looks like that BODY number includes ALL Eliabeth bodies from the start of HQ production that didnt get a HQ chassis number, and this would be:

HQs and Toranas exported out of Elizabeth;
Late LC and LJ plus possibly a few pilot LH Toranas;
Dandenong assembled HG vans after 6/71 (not sure about utes);
Pagewood assembled HG vans after 6/71;
Dandenong assembled HQ vans and tonners;
All Mosman Park assembled HQs (and maybe HG vans and utes after 6/71).
Possibly others.

You are correct about the PSNs too, and this is the same for all assembly plants. The PSN component of the VIN is sequential for all vehicles from each plant from 1/1/68, so it includes Impalas, Parisiennes, Bedfords, Chev trucks plus Holdens, Statesmans, Geminis, Toranas etc.

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hq ss Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 26 December 2009 7:07:38 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the information HK1837.
So the PSN change over was at L242000 was it.
I was curious as to when they actually did it and now after looking at the Torana vin details and
the suspected SS details from Adelaide early cars I have a better understanding of how mixed up the vins
actually got coming down the line.
So a certain Vin makes a lot more sense than a date.
I have also been interested in these stamped body numbers on the firewalls and this topic may have
answered something I have been trying to understand with them.
This was why they did not match up to any of the other numbers at all.
But now if you compare them to the combined numbers of Adelaide and Perth chassis numbers at the same time they are a lot closer together.
So would I be correct in saying that they are the actual amount of HQ bodies that were made up until that vehicle.
If this is the case these would give you a better idea as to how many HQs went to other plants.
The lowest I have is a
03051A on a 8/71 81135 with a Perth chassis number of AHQ 01696P
and then the next is
04654A on a 8/71 81469 with a Adelaide chassis number of AHQ 01888A
which is 3584 chassis numbers.
As I do not have exact build dates to compare these cars to the fact this number falls between to two suggests to me that there could have been more Perth vehicles and maybe some Melbourne vehicles
built in between.
I will check my details and see what I can come up with on them.
Also would you know a rough date as to when they stopped using the stamped body numbers on the firewalls of the Adelaide built cars.
I have noticed that from the 3/74 they do not have them anymore but I was curious as to when they stopped doing them.
Cheers Paul.
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HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 29 December 2009 1:30:16 AM(UTC)
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Paul

Not sure about the firewall/cowl numbers. I know on the Pagewood cars they are close to the chassis number but no idea bout Elizabeth bodies.

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