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When I purchased my HT Monaro (originally 186S GTS) like so many it had been converted to a 253 with M21 aussie 4spd. The banjo diff has a ratio of 2.78:1 and so obviously its not going to set any records down the standing quarter.
I would like to keep the 253 and restore the car to 253 specs but would like some advice on the drivetrain. The M21 gear stick sits closer to the firewall than the original would have, and the console has been modified to accommodate this however it's a bit of a lean forward to change gears.
Here's a few questions:
1. Should I get hold of a saginaw gearbox to drive the 253?
2. Is the tunnel of a 6 cylinder different to that of an 8 cylinder that may affect the gearbox installation?
3. Is the length of the gearbox different therefore meaning the tailshaft will be incorrect length?
4. Should I look at changing the diff to 3.08:1?
Many thanks in anticipation of some advice. |
Monaro - Move ahead of your time |
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I thinks the tunnel had a lump in the side for the models fitted with a saginaw. If you are gunna go to all the troubles of rebuilding and posibly a saginaw put a 308 or chev in it. a 308 will fit right were the 253 goes and have more power. it is a muscle car so you might aswell have muscle in it! It blows my mind that you could order a GTS with a crappy 6 pot! its like ordering a Harley with a postie bike engine in it. Havent you learnt anything from that guy that gives sermons at church?...Captain whats his name. Edited by user Saturday, 26 December 2009 10:37:03 PM(UTC)
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Havent you learnt anything from that guy that gives sermons at church?...Captain whats his name. |
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Seems strange but 4 on the floor and a 186 seemed pretty sporty then, as well as that the V8s were a fair bit dearer to buy new, about a 25% mark up. Hang on whilst I consult Dr Ts book, ahhh here it is, 6 cyl $3200 vs V8 $4000. Much the same as going from the SS to the HSV today Id reckon. Edited by user Saturday, 26 December 2009 10:57:18 PM(UTC)
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Yes it depends on the time, 186S was not a bad engine in 1968. But then, why would you buy an SV6 today, wait on s*** loads do. But why buy an SS when you can buy an HSV GTS. I doubt any self respecting sports sedan buyer would buy less than a HSV GTS or tickford GT, all those XR6, SV6 and SS owners must be just wanabes.
The difference in price you listed is to the GTS 350, the 253 was much cheaper, but why have a 253, only should have made the GTS 350, and because production would have been so low, made in sedan form instead of coupe, just like the Falcon GT.
1) saginaw is expensive these days, would stick with M21, unless originallity is required.
2) Tunnel is different for saginaw, all others the same
3) Tailshaft and mount are different
4) 3.36 is not bad, 3.08 is quite popular.
Another option would be a 304 injected with 5 speed from a VN, they are cheap to buy the whole car and slot in easy.
Warren
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In its day the 253 was a pretty good bit of gear. A Grand tourer not a street fighter. Made to travel quickly (90-100mph) and comforably between capital cities with reasonable fuel consumption.Stick with your combination 253 M21. To relocate the shifter you need the transmission hump that goes between the front seats. If your car is a GTS should already have this if not they turn up on e-bay and are expensive.The hump is the mount for the shifter.Once the shifter is mounted in the correct position you will need to lengthen the 3 gear selector rods. I fabricated my own gearshift mount and rods by using the console to locate the position of the shifter. Be careful of the height of the shifter as it sits just above the universals.
A question with out notice when did the aussie 4 speed appear in the HT and how can you tell if the car was fitted with aussie 4 speed?
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The Aussie 4-speed gearbox was never factory fitted to HK/T/G.
You would need to fabricate any parts needed if you wanted to build a remote-mount shifter in the HK/T/G floor hump position.
Didnt we discuss this when I last saw your car Jason? I could have a chat with you & John to maybe design just such a shifter.
Dr Terry
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If using an original shifter hump it should be just a matter of making a flat plate that suits the shifter and the hump it is mounting to,and lengthing the selector rods and of course some "massaging" of the transmission hump.
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Warren, I seem to have hit a raw nerve with you, all I said was that the 6 cyl monaro was more popular based on price. I was 20 in 1969 and well remember earning $80 a week, most buyers could only stretch to a 6 cyl GTS which is probably the reason why they were popular.
By the time the LJ XU1 came out we were earning more and if you werent married or getting married you bought one of those.
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If I had your car I would do this....327....saginaw....3.08 perfect for me..!(327 excellent bore to stroke relationship and rarer!)
Jim in Adelaide...Hindsight is bad vision! |
Jim in Adelaide.. |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
Didnt we discuss this when I last saw your car Jason? I could have a chat with you & John to maybe design just such a shifter.
Dr Terry
Terry we did briefly touch on this last time you saw the car. Id like to chat with you about fabricating something to suit next time I see you. Ill also try to get hold of a 3.08:1 differential just to make it go a little better. Thanks everyone for their posts. Certainly plenty of options. Edited by user Monday, 28 December 2009 12:35:50 AM(UTC)
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Monaro - Move ahead of your time |
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Not you have not hit a nerve, the other comment on here did.
quote:
It blows my mind that you could order a GTS with a crappy 6 pot! its like ordering a Harley with a postie bike engine in it.
People seem to forget that Holden is about making cars to make money, so if the public wanted a 4 clinder sports pack, then they would make them. Thousands of people purchase 6 cylinder Monaros aand GTSs, many more than purchased V8s. So as far as a sales point of view, then they were much better. They are not into making collectors items. If it sells they make it, that is why Holden would consider the TA Torana a better car than the HQ Monaro, 13000 sales in 4 years for the Monaro, 9000 in 1 year for the TA. Yes crappy little 4 cylinder torry, but more people put the money on the table. Rare car means no one wanted them, or they were as expensive as anything. Warren
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Back to the original question, personally I think a 253 with M21 and 2.78 or 3.08 banjo is a poor combination in a HT GTS. Unless you keep the factory shifter setup youll probably always suffer with poor shift quality (like a Saginaw had) due to the long linkages and body mounted shifter, unless you can get the shifter to stay on the box and do something with the stick. Plus and M21 with 3.08 behind a 253 isnt all that much fun either if the car is driven much around town. Trouble you have is even with a Saginaw you need floor/tunnel mods. Aussie 4spd needs mods to floor member (already done I suppose), Toploader needs mods. Maybe a T5 might be a good compromise as Warren suggests and keep the 253?
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