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Build Numbers please?
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Allan Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 2 March 2010 6:35:26 PM(UTC)
Allan

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Hi Guys,

Can anyone hazard a guess at how many HJ LS Monaros would have a 1974 build date?

Cheers,
Allan
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WB UTE Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 2 March 2010 9:57:53 PM(UTC)
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the best guess would be to access the information from the monaro register,

unfortunately it seems that the holder of said register does not freely give even generic information such as the the info you are after out.

im not sure of the point of the register if the information gathereed from the monaro community is not to be shared.

and i dont mean vin numbers or engine numbers. but it would be nice to see numbers of each model, say how many HG coupes with a 308 auto combination, or numbers of HQ built in Salamanca for example, or even Allans request of how many HJ LS Monaros would have a 1974 build date.

I for one wish I had never given my cars details to the register!

Ted

Edited by user Tuesday, 2 March 2010 9:59:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 2 March 2010 10:17:36 PM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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you can get GTHO details easier than those details from a dirty old monaro, i dunno why its such a secret but i spose thats their mentality.
i used to give heaps and heaps and heaps of details of cars to a former prez of the monaro club of vic back in the late 90s and into the next decade, i really dont know why i bothered nowspose im just a generous, all round good guy....

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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classic oz wreck Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 2 March 2010 11:31:04 PM(UTC)
classic oz wreck

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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
Hi Guys,

Can anyone hazard a guess at how many HJ LS Monaros would have a 1974 build date?

Cheers,
Allan



ZERO TO 20...sounds like a good guess to me...

going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au
going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au
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HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:10:54 AM(UTC)
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There were 337 HJ LS made. The only way to know how many have 1974 build date is to find all the cars and look at the ADR plates. This info is not available anywhere else despite what has been said above. The 337 are counted off GMH service records, and the info that is known about them is how many 202, 253 and 308 were built. No colours, no build dates, nothing else.

The Monaro register would not be able to tell you how many HG 308 auto coupes were built as the register would be lucky to have 4% of those built recorded. And as to how many in Salamanca red, again find all the cars and record them all and then youll know, there is no other way.

As for the Monaro register being useful for generic information, yes it is, but such a register is not useful for trivial information like how many cars were built in 1974. Itd be like someone asking me how many 6cyl Sandmans were built in Tuxedo black. If I used my Sandman register to answer that itd be ZERO as I have none recorded! What such a register is useful for is breakpoints when things changed like trim codes, GVW, ID plate styles etc, none of which is useful as generic info but useful for historical purposes in creation of a book the the Monaro Story/Facts.

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HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:14:54 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
There were 337 HJ LS made. The only way to know how many have 1974 build date is to find all the cars and look at the ADR plates. This info is not available anywhere else despite what has been said above. The 337 are counted off GMH service records, and the info that is known about them is how many 202, 253 and 308 were built. No colours, no build dates, nothing else.

The Monaro register would not be able to tell you how many HG 308 auto coupes were built as the register would be lucky to have 4% of those built recorded. And as to how many in Salamanca red, again find all the cars and record them all and then youll know, there is no other way.

As for the Monaro register being useful for generic information, yes it is, but such a register is not useful for trivial information like how many cars were built in 1974. Itd be like someone asking me how many 6cyl Sandmans were built in Tuxedo black. If I used my Sandman register to answer that itd be ZERO as I have none recorded! What such a register is useful for is breakpoints when things changed like trim codes, GVW, ID plate styles etc, none of which is useful as generic info but useful for historical purposes in creation of a book like the Monaro Story/Facts.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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classic oz wreck Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:29:10 AM(UTC)
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going on what byron has just added i would like to ammend my hazardous guess to zero to five...its probably closer..

going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au
going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:38:03 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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quote:
Originally posted by classic oz wreck
going on what byron has just added i would like to ammend my hazardous guess to zero to five...its probably closer..

going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au


my guess, 3.5, three were completed, 1 stayed half finished over the christmas break haha

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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WB UTE Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:45:30 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
There were 337 HJ LS made. The only way to know how many have 1974 build date is to find all the cars and look at the ADR plates. This info is not available anywhere else despite what has been said above. The 337 are counted off GMH service records, and the info that is known about them is how many 202, 253 and 308 were built. No colours, no build dates, nothing else.

The Monaro register would not be able to tell you how many HG 308 auto coupes were built as the register would be lucky to have 4% of those built recorded. And as to how many in Salamanca red, again find all the cars and record them all and then youll know, there is no other way.

As for the Monaro register being useful for generic information, yes it is, but such a register is not useful for trivial information like how many cars were built in 1974. Itd be like someone asking me how many 6cyl Sandmans were built in Tuxedo black. If I used my Sandman register to answer that itd be ZERO as I have none recorded! What such a register is useful for is breakpoints when things changed like trim codes, GVW, ID plate styles etc, none of which is useful as generic info but useful for historical purposes in creation of a book the the Monaro Story/Facts.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?


no one said the monaro register would be able to tell you the exact number of any make/model/style built, so please dont put words into my mouth,

the monaro register wont give you the total built but it sure can give an indicative estimate based on the information already gathered when you compare it to the total build numbers for each model.

and what may be trivial information to you can be nice to know info for joe average, because breakpoints as you put it may mean very little to most and are important to some. does that mean the information on the register that has no historical beakpoint significance should not be shared with joe average.

ill put it simply. the answer to allans question should have read something like:

Allan, to answer your question, we have no conclusive evidence of the total number of HJ LS Monaros built in 1974 by GMH. I can tell you that there are 337 in total HJ LSs on the GMH warranty records but this would not account for the total build. Of the 337 we have *** listed on the Monaro Register and of those listed we can tell you that there are *** 1974 HJ LSs with a 74 build year.

now doesnt that sound better than telling someone there question is trivial.

but we all know allan wont get an informative answer to his trivial question. which is a shame in itself really.

end rant

Ted

Edited by user Wednesday, 3 March 2010 3:48:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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cloudy Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 4:51:06 AM(UTC)
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back in the mid 80`s i could have bought a HJ LS 202 nice original cond for $6000. at a car yard in SA then another about 10years back at a swap it was a HJ LS Tbar auto with 4.2 lt.again in SA its was tidy and $4500.
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jim Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 5:00:18 AM(UTC)
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I have to say in my opinion only,not trying to side with anyone, that what is trivial to one is not to the other,as people on this and other forum have said "check this out" how rare! so if its trivial then why do we ALL care ?I know ive done it.its just interesting to me personnally,ps one of a kind,rare,old new its just opinions and everyone has one.

ps cloudy should have bought it ay?just my opinion...lol

TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ,I DONT KNOW ,BUT IF YOU GOT ONE KEEP IT.

Jim in Adelaide...Hindsight is bad vision!

Edited by user Wednesday, 3 March 2010 5:03:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jim in Adelaide..
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HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 5:56:00 AM(UTC)
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Firstly, I didnt address my biggest concern. I possibly came across as gruff, but Ben Stewart is the nicest guy youll ever meet and the tone of the post got my back up. Ben Stewart who holds the Monaro Register does not withold information. All you have to do is ask and hell help you if he can, when he can. So when the question is asked of Ben he may well answer as above, im not here to answer for him. What I am saying is that whilst some conclusion may be drawn from those cars recorded there is little point as it will not give you anywhere close to an answer to the original question. The best way I can put it as an example is if you asked what was the most common HK GTS colour and used the Monaro Register for guidance youd end up with Blue or Silver which isnt right as the most common colour in the day was Red or Yellow - if you get my drift. So the best available answer is the information I gave above ie 337 made in total, and allow the person asking the question to do the sums eg 10/74 through to around 3/76, divide 337 by the number of months, multiply by the number of months in 1974, factor a few more in at HJ release and theres your guess. I get 60. But it could easily be 10 or 120, thats the problem with interpolation.
Nowhere was the question called trivial, so please practice what is preached. The information is trivial in the scheme of what reliable information is available out of collecting random samples of ID which is what the Register is, and how much time it would take to mine what conclusions you could out of the information. And then I doubt Ben would nail his colours to the mast based upon guesses. I know I wouldnt. If you understood the amount of work it took to count through the hundreds of pages of microfiche to count the 337 quoted (plus GTS coupes as well) you would understand why information such as completion dates in the service records is trivial in bulk quantity. Even if you did count how many LSs have a completion date in 1974 that would also be way out, my HJ Premier is a perfect example as is a quantity of LSs started in 1974. My Prem is 11/74 plated but wasnt completed until 2/75 and delivered in 2/75. The best guess is the 2.78 LSD centre held them up. So is my Prem a 1974 car or a 1975 car? Plates say 1974 but records will say 1975.

Allan, contact the Monaro Register and Ben will reply when he gets time with what is available for your car which may include confirmation that the current engine is correct, when it was completed and which dealer sold it. Mechanical options like air, steer, LSD, shift location etc will also be there if you dont already know it.



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Warren Turnbull Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:24:48 AM(UTC)
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quote:
according to Ben Stewart who gave me the build numbers for GTS 350s each year of HQ manufacture


Ben has accessed the information contained on the micro fische, which does contain build dates and sales date. It just depends on what information he recorded when he accessed the info.

We know that he recorded the 350 GTS and LS in HQ, but I do not think he counted all the Monaro, LS and GTS coupes.

We know he counted the HJ coupes, but these were all from one plant, he did not count the HJ sedans.

This info has nothing to do with all the info that many so helpfully contributed over 2 decades. This info gave us information on colour and trim, plus details on models not on Holden records.

The information is not complete, so although there are some definitive numbers, but others are just not available at this time.

Have you asked Ben for the nuber of 74 HJ LS, he may have recoreded them in date order and therefore just a matter of counting from 74 to 75.

Just think how big a task it would be to go through 400000 HQs looking for 350 engined coupes. Now add to that listing all 13000 HQ coupes. How easy would it be to miss one. Some cars are also listed inncorrectly on the Fische, had one recently, recorded as a 6 cylinder Premier sedan on the fische, car is GTS, interesting the engine listed against the 6 cylinder Premier is a 4.2 litre V8, confirmning the car is a GTS as the tags suggest.

I believe the numbers on HQ 350 coupes and sedans is correct as he would have chased the U prefix on the engine codes. The only problem would be iff someone put an R in the engine code accidently (I know of an HQ GTS 350 with an R engine code in the VIN, the reason the error occured is the Q37 code is used for GTS and GTS 350, the 81837 was ordered with no options and therefore when the VIN was done it came up as Q37 with no options so R code used.

The same applies to the GT Falcon numbers, there are cars that were added to it over the years, it is not 100%. Remeber a .01% data error on the HQ Fische would equate to over 400 errors. If you count key strokes then there is a possibilty of over 1200 errors. 1% error is acceptable in some areas, this would blow these to 40,000 and 120,000.

So back to the original question, have you emailed the register to ask the question?

Warren
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Allan Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:27:09 AM(UTC)
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Hi Guys,

It wasnt exactly a life or death query or something "I needed to know" more like "It would be nice to know". I have a 11/74 HJ LS Monaro factory fitted with 308 and turbo 400. The build plate on the car says 11/74 but the letter I have from Holden says 10/74. Typo? Or is this common? I also have a 2001 build date CV-8 Monaro and I assume their where not too many produced with a 2001 date??? As usual Holden cannot tell me any numbers produced hence my original query. I think it is nice to have a couple of Monaros that were the very first of their respective model and would like to try and narrow the "numbers" down. I apoligise if the query got up anyones nose, it was not my intention. It is something that in my particular case would be interesting to know and not overly important in the scheme of things.

Cheers,
Allan

P.S. Can somebody tell me how I can post a pic of the HJ step by step. I have followed directions from earlier posts and still cannot get a pic to appear. Its a wonder I can post a question with my computer skills!
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80569K Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:27:16 AM(UTC)
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Just thinking ahead...

Back in the day GMH probably had other priorities and didnt give a thought that one day those cars would be sought after.

This of course begs the question, what of todays Monaros, HSVs and other specials that crop up from time to time, are accurate records maintained by GMH or HSV for future reference?

Edited by user Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:30:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Allan Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:33:11 AM(UTC)
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I have tried to access info from Holden re how many CV-8s were manufactured in 2001 and in what combinations, colours ect and the answer is "not recorded". You would think in this day and age it would be easier to access this sort of info?

Cheers,
Allan
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HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:37:33 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
Hi Guys,

It wasnt exactly a life or death query or something "I needed to know" more like "It would be nice to know". I have a 11/74 HJ LS Monaro factory fitted with 308 and turbo 400. The build plate on the car says 11/74 but the letter I have from Holden says 10/74. Typo? Or is this common? I also have a 2001 build date CV-8 Monaro and I assume their where not too many produced with a 2001 date??? As usual Holden cannot tell me any numbers produced hence my original query. I think it is nice to have a couple of Monaros that were the very first of their respective model and would like to try and narrow the "numbers" down. I apoligise if the query got up anyones nose, it was not my intention. It is something that in my particular case would be interesting to know and not overly important in the scheme of things.

Cheers,
Allan

P.S. Can somebody tell me how I can post a pic of the HJ step by step. I have followed directions from earlier posts and still cannot get a pic to appear. Its a wonder I can post a question with my computer skills!



Allan, dont take a lot of notice of GMH letters. But, it is very common for the build records to be different for completion date to the date on the ADR plate. As per my post above, my 11/74 plated HJ Premier is listed in the service records as 2/75 completion. Warren, this is the exact reason why I stated that the service/build records are probably not as useful as you might think in obtaining a 1974 build number. It will be the best indication though, but the time it would take to do it wouldnt be worth it.

BTW Allan, youd love my 11/74 HJ Prem if you have a 308 TH400 11/74 HJ LS. This Prem has everything you LS would have plus 2 extra doors (GTS dash, air, steer, LSD, power windows, T-bar etc etc). Its the perfect reference point for a HJ LS resto as its so original. Let me know if you need to know anything. Has your car still got the original carby? If so whats its number?

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Mr.Jones Offline
#18 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:46:57 AM(UTC)
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I have 3 LSs and 9 GTS coupes recorded as built in 74, the caveat is that the info was collected from ebay and forums over the past couple of years so is very incomplete but I would hazard a guess as somewhere between 50 and 80. This is based on the total build and the fact that coupe production had tapered off to bugger all by early 76. Which leaves about 250 for the whole of 75.

Leroy

edit Damn this thread got busy I started typing at the bottom of the first page and and finished at the bottom of the second


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Edited by user Wednesday, 3 March 2010 7:02:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"Planet earth is the asylum to which the rest of the universe sends it's lunatics"
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Allan Offline
#19 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 6:59:27 AM(UTC)
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No, the original carby is long gone! When I got the car it had been "around the block a few times" so it has been rebuilt how I wanted it and not back to factory specs. It was originally a Deville Blue HJ LS Monaro with factory 308, turbo 400 and 3.36 LSD. When I got it it was painted Mandarin Red, the Turbo 400 has been replaced with a Trimatic and the 3.36 LSD swapped for a 2.78! The LS dash had been changed to GTS as well as GTS guards and the Prem front end changed to single headlight. At first glance it is a HJ GTS coupe. It also had a after-market sun-roof fitted to it in a past existence which became obvious when the hood lining was replaced. I was wondering why their was no interior light where it should be? The butchers had cut out the roof support that the light was attached to to make way for the sun-roof!! AARRGGHHH!! At the end of the day I decided to build the car I wanted and not to faithfully restore the old girl. If I could figure out how to post a pic I would and all would be explained. She is now painted Morroccan Red Pearl Metallic which is a late model Jaguar colour. Of a night time it looks black and when the light hits it you get flashes of deep burgundy and purple. It is dropped on its guts and rolling on a set of 17x8 Show-wheel "Streeters". It has a bug catcher through the bonnet and sounds like a race car when fired up. It turns heads everywhere and when I get behind the wheel you cannot wipe the grin from my face and lets be honest thats what its all about!

Cheers,
Allan
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#20 Posted : Wednesday, 3 March 2010 7:22:31 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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dont take a lot of notice of GMH letters. .

this would have to be the quote of the entire thread..so true for both GM and Ford, thet are not worth the paper they are written on

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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