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Holden & Rare Spares Offer Genuine Resto Parts
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#1 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 3:19:37 AM(UTC)
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HOLDEN & RARE SPARES TO OFFER GENUINE RESTORATION PARTS



Ever since the first Holden - the 48-215 - rolled off the production line in 1948, enthusiasts have been passionately returning classic Holden vehicles to their former glory.

Today these vehicles are again in the spotlight, with the launch of the Holden Restoration Parts by Rare Spares program.

Holden Aftersales Director John Scotton said the program would give owners of Holden classic vehicles the opportunity to purchase high quality replacement parts and accessories, manufactured using original Holden tooling.

Holden and Rare Spares have a shared vision of seeing historic Holden vehicles admired and driven long after they have left the showroom, Mr Scotton said.

It was a natural fit for our organisations to come together to offer Holden enthusiasts access to parts and accessories that will assist them to restore their vehicles back to Holdens original standards.
He said the program would include parts suitable for models from the original 48-215, right through to VS Commodores.

Through participating Holden dealers, the Rare Spares Distributer network or online at www.holdenrestorationparts.com.au, restorers can access parts such as badges, decals, wheel caps and trims, engine and cooling components, electrical components, and lamps and lenses, he said.

Rare Spares General Manager David Rayner said while Rare Spares had a long history of manufacturing classic Holden vehicle parts, the Holden Restoration Parts by Rare Spares program would improve both the availability and price of parts and accessories.

Making low volume parts at an affordable price can be difficult, so working with Holden will allow us to rapidly increase the number of products under the new brand, as well as enabling us to ensure quality and consistent supply of existing product, Mr Rayner said.

We look forward to being able to extend these benefits to Holden restorers, so that they can continue to bring their classic Holdens back to A1 condition for generations to come.
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 3:36:49 AM(UTC)
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god help us...look at fab, 2nd from the right there un the first pic...

well, how ya gunna restore a car without them huh??

my tip is, even harder i reckon

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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hqgts Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:01:17 AM(UTC)
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as long as the first off tool sample is never deemed good enough then I wish your new venture all the best...

but when 'near enough is good enough' to achieve a cost outcome becomes the norm then you will not capture the entire market for your product... you will alienate the section that restore cars to a high standard....

for example.... HQ centre console flipper lids were released but the finish was poor.... you could get a set that included the lid and the shifter surround for about $80... you will never see these on a restored car... people would rather use a good original second hand item....

on the other hand .... the guys that reproduced the HQ dash facia did a mint job.... and people are paying top dollar for a quality item....

people will always pay good money for a quality item.... but if you get the quality wrong to save a buck then shooting yourself in the foot imo
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petaus Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:26:07 AM(UTC)
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about time holden relised there was a buck to be made, i just hope some is actually checking this stuff fits???????
as said dont cut corners (costs) on making stuff cause if it ant right we wont use it.
pete.
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Sam308 on 4/09/2019(UTC)
petaus Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:28:06 AM(UTC)
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i wounder if this duo is out to stop other company reproducing panels and parts???????????????????????????????????????????????
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HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 7:09:32 AM(UTC)
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I'll let Les comment, but I heard Rares have invested in that venture reproducing parts and panels?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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bogart69 Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 22 May 2010 9:07:09 AM(UTC)
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About time alright, as much as I am a Holden man I feel Holden Australia have let owners down by not keeping more parts in stock for the old girls, and giving access to old parts lists and info about the cars.

If you see rubbish put a circle around it.(FORD)
If you see rubbish put a circle around it.(FORD)
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Mike81973 Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 23 May 2010 1:13:42 AM(UTC)
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Hi all,
what original tooling are they **** on about, surely the original tooling is either completely flogged out or scrapped many years ago!
I agree with a previous reader, Rares Spares are doing an excellent job of shooting themselves in the foot at the moment, that seems all they are doing excellently.
I have heard of far more bad reports than good ones and I never recommend them myself.

I think Holden are in for a shock when they get bombarded with bad feed back about quality control.

Mike

Purpul Police
Purpul Police
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DCOE Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 23 May 2010 3:02:58 AM(UTC)
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I think they are talking about tooling from here forward, ie they only have tooling from VS Commodore onwards. This makes all the PR seem a little bit dishonest, as it may lead people to believe they have tooling for the older stuff. My personal belief is that the company (RS) is a little ethically challenged when you look at their history, where in some cases they sell parts that they know don't fit but their excuse is that it would cost a fortune to remake the tooling (eg some badges).

Another thing I have heard on the grapevine regarding that repro mob in QLD making all the new stuff is that they (QLD) wanted to completely dissociate themselves from RS and refused to deal with them as resellers of their stuff. It is said that RS created a shell company to negotiate with the QLD mob, never disclosing that they were really RS until the ink was dry and the contract was watertight. If this is the case it adds to the perception that underneath the papp they are not very nice people.

They also registered the domain oldholden.com.au to capture traffic from oldholden.com and redirect it to Fastlane. (for those not aware, Fastlane is owned by RS). I have also heard of other behaviour such as bullying and intimidation of smaller suppliers.

Not very nice people from what I have seen.
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petaus Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 23 May 2010 7:34:41 AM(UTC)
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I have seen a rare spares dealer up here advetising its a dealer with the other crowd??? will he be getting a phone call from the powers above in rares?????
the brisbane guy (in a converation on the phone during the week said he does not care what rares do.
I know gts guards, hk gts steering wheels are coming so is complete quarter panels and floor pans.
all made from steel dies imteresting??? have not heard any bad commets about the beaver panel???
pete.
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DCOE Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 23 May 2010 8:21:45 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by petaus
I have seen a rare spares dealer up here advetising its a dealer with the other crowd??? will he be getting a phone call from the powers above in rares?????
the brisbane guy (in a converation on the phone during the week said he does not care what rares do.
I know gts guards, hk gts steering wheels are coming so is complete quarter panels and floor pans.
all made from steel dies imteresting??? have not heard any bad commets about the beaver panel???
pete.


There is a lot of misunderstanding about this topic. In legal terms, there are 3 things which may be of concern:

Copyright
Patent
Trade Mark


Let's deal with copyright first. Copyright applies to published works such as writing and pictures - it is not applicable in this discussion except in instances such as copying of manuals etc.

Patent (in this instance) deals with rights to protect inventions and manufactured items for a limited period. Any patent on anything of interest here (pre 1985 or thereabouts) has long ago expired. Also, Australian Law prevents OEMs from asserting patent rights over smash repair parts regardless of age.

So the final hurdle is trade mark. Now, getting on my soapbox for a minute, trademark law was originally intended to protect consumers and producers equally from counterfeits (to simplify). In the past 20 years or so, producers have been able to use their legal weasels to get around the original intent of trademark law in order to assert ownership rights in questionable situations.

Regardless of that, trademark law is fairly straightforward, and it means that you can't use a "mark" (such as the Holden Logo) without permission of the mark owner. Trademarks generally don't run out, unless the mark becomes a commonly used word or the company goes bust (etc). This is why the word "thermos" (the thing that keeps your coffee warm)can no longer be trademarked.

However, there is a proviso to this. Trademark owners are obligated to protect their mark vigorously against infringers, and if they do not do so then that mark may be deemed by law to have fallen into common usage and/or abandoned.

GMH's problem with all this is that they have sat idly by while many people infringed their mark and have taken little if any action. Evidence of this abounds, including - and I am making an assumption here - by Rare Spares themselves. If there were no licensing agreements in place for the last 20+ years while RS and others have been reproducing various Holden marks, then GMH are going to have a very tough time taking legal action against anyone who uses these (OLD) marks. A court may well form the view that GMH abandoned these old marks and is no longer entitled to protect them.

In any case, the amount of repro items on old stuff that contains a mark is very limited, and in your above example would only apply to the horn button insert on the HK steering wheel, and even so there may be a very good case to argue that GMH has abandoned that mark in law.

This is not legal advice.
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les Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 6:15:32 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by DCOE
I think they are talking about tooling from here forward, ie they only have tooling from VS Commodore onwards. This makes all the PR seem a little bit dishonest, as it may lead people to believe they have tooling for the older stuff. My personal belief is that the company (RS) is a little ethically challenged when you look at their history, where in some cases they sell parts that they know don't fit but their excuse is that it would cost a fortune to remake the tooling (eg some badges).

Another thing I have heard on the grapevine regarding that repro mob in QLD making all the new stuff is that they (QLD) wanted to completely dissociate themselves from RS and refused to deal with them as resellers of their stuff. It is said that RS created a shell company to negotiate with the QLD mob, never disclosing that they were really RS until the ink was dry and the contract was watertight. If this is the case it adds to the perception that underneath the papp they are not very nice people.

They also registered the domain oldholden.com.au to capture traffic from oldholden.com and redirect it to Fastlane. (for those not aware, Fastlane is owned by RS). I have also heard of other behaviour such as bullying and intimidation of smaller suppliers.

Not very nice people from what I have seen.


It would appear that your post is based on assumption and hearsay in most cases, let me answer this in point form.

"I think they are talking about tooling from here forward, ie they only have tooling from VS Commodore onwards. This makes all the PR seem a little bit dishonest, as it may lead people to believe they have tooling for the older stuff."

This is incorrect we are talking VS back and we do have tooling back to FJ we also have a lot of tooling that is not identified as yet but we do know that there is a lot of tooling for older models.

" My personal belief is that the company (RS) is a little ethically challenged when you look at their history, where in some cases they sell parts that they know don't fit but their excuse is that it would cost a fortune to remake the tooling (eg some badges)."

You do have a point about some of our badges and I do stress some badges that the pins are slightly out of place because they are made by a cheaper method than the expensive diecast which is not viable for low volume runs. We have never tried to hide the fact that this is the case and refund anyone that is not happy with the product. This is not the ideal situation for us and with that in mind we are having a lot of tooling remade for these badges and have been for some time. The ones that we do not remake tooling for we will probably discontinue.

"Another thing I have heard on the grapevine regarding that repro mob in QLD making all the new stuff is that they (QLD) wanted to completely dissociate themselves from RS and refused to deal with them as resellers of their stuff. It is said that RS created a shell company to negotiate with the QLD mob, never disclosing that they were really RS until the ink was dry and the contract was watertight. If this is the case it adds to the perception that underneath the papp they are not very nice people. "

Suffice to say this is an absolute untruth and therefore not worthy of further comment !.


"They also registered the domain oldholden.com.au to capture traffic from oldholden.com and redirect it to Fastlane. (for those not aware, Fastlane is owned by RS)."

Firstly oldholden.com.au redirects to Rare Spares and is only one of many domain names we have, we had it well before we purchased Fastlane.
Yes we do own and host the web site Fastlane so what! it is not censored by Rare Spares as you will see from posts that are not kind to us. The only time there is any censorship is if a post is offensive to anyone or the site is threatened with legal action.

" I have also heard of other behaviour such as bullying and intimidation of smaller suppliers."

A statement based on hearsay in fact we have helped many small suppliers over the years financially, with advice and physically

"Not very nice people from what I have seen."

Your opinion based on untruths, assumptions and hearsay - you obviously know very little about the company rare spares or our ethics
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monarobits Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 6:23:06 AM(UTC)
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Thanks to Dave and Simon for sending me the fastlane link
I have read some very interesting postings and decided to put my two cents worth on the rare spares , GMH joint venture. As best as I can see both companies are getting the trouncing they deserve, as they have done little to make the roaring lion look proud. If GMH proceeds with rare spares and doesn't force rare spares to dramatically improve their products - or more importantly remove the worst of them from sale immediately - , they will have become an accessory to the well documented trade practices fraud, and ruin their credibility once and for all in my opinion.
As a full time Monaro repairer and restorer for more than a decade I have been puzzled why the ACCC has never investigated rare spares or taken any significant action to my knowledge over their continual and glaring disregard for the protections the trade practices act is purported to have. This is not tall poppy syndrome just a pent up outpouring on behalf of all those who have been continually frustrated and let down by GMH and others, who instead of throwing their shoulder behind the preservation wheel chose to handbrake, ignore and frustrate progress instead. Fortunately the allegiance to the mighty Holden has been carried forward by dedicated owners and enthusiasts in spite of the previously mentioned impediments, and GMH needs to be aware of the expectations of this loyal army and act responsibly and transparently. A substantial part of this would be recognising and admitting to the previous transgressions, some assurances that things have changed and the help and information GMH has always been able to provide made available in a broader sense rather than for one organisation for the purposes of making money.
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DCOE Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 6:54:05 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by les
You do have a point about some of our badges and I do stress some badges that the pins are slightly out of place


Les, this appears to be pretty typical of your mindset and thus my comments on your ethics. "Slightly" out of place? Yes, the difference is slight if you are talking raw distances and comparing to, say, the length of a football field. On the relevant scale though, (ie the distance between the holes on the car they are supposed to fit into), the difference is more than "slight". As the badges don't fit in the intended holes, the difference may as well be a metre or a light year. They don't fit, therefore the difference cannot be considered "slight"
quote:
Originally posted by les
We have never tried to hide the fact that this is the case


Again, I beg to differ. You do everything possible to hide the fact. You don't say on your packaging that the badge doesn't fit the car it is intended for, and it is presented and advertised in such a way that a reasonable person would expect it to fit the car it is supposedly made for.
quote:
Originally posted by les
and refund anyone that is not happy with the product.


That may sound like you are truly generous, when in fact you are required by law under the TPA to give a full refund as the product is not fit for the purpose it was intended. ie you couldn't refuse to refund even if you wanted to, you are breaching Commonwealth law if you don't.
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CrustyHK Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 8:28:18 AM(UTC)
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I find it so frustrating that I supposedly can't restore an old holden without Rare Spares.

Trying to do a decent job without decent tools is difficult but trying to do a decent job with rare spares reproduction components is simply an excercise in futility.

It isn't unreasonable to expect rust repair sections to at least resemble the original but that doesn't seem important to rare spares. As long as they "get em out the door". When challenged over this the response is a shrug of the shoulders and a reply of "that's all there is"

GTS steering wheels, centre consoles, rubbers and badges are just a few items that are all clearly repros and clearly poor quality from a great distance. I thought reproduction meant reproducing an item as original?

I haven't been doing this long but rest assured Rare Spares is last resort spares in my mind.

For some reason my gut feeling is that we will have a wider choice of ill fitting parts and much lighter wallets with this landmark venture.

Peter

PS: I had no idea this site was owned by Rare Spares. Maybe because they haven't exactly advertised the fact. I find that somewhat misleading and wonder why they wouldn't proudly advertise their logo in the header of the site.
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cloudy Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 4:22:08 PM(UTC)
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This is why original parts cost so much because they fit,people pay big money for the right parts, Some people do not care if a part is not quite right thats their choice or their budget but RSP`s play a part as not all parts can be found and this is an option. Would I buy from rare spares If need be yes but I rely on swapmeets etc to source a lot of parts and occaisonally ebay.
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2010 6:53:03 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
This is why original parts cost so much because they fit

let me tell you, that some NOS stuff doesnt fit like you would thing, everything ned a tweek here and there. the problem is with some of these bits is also to do with the person that is fitting them. you cant just expect to get a floor pan, throw it in and "shazammmm" it fits like a glove, just doesnt happen.
the market here just isnt big enough for some one like dynacorn to make every piece, and their stuff is trash as well



"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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ITCH Offline
#18 Posted : Tuesday, 25 May 2010 3:07:27 AM(UTC)
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I have to agree with WRECKED , we don't live in a perfect world , enuff said

CHEERS!
< Gotta Luv It!
<b><font color="orange">&lt; 4 SALE , SELLING .......SOLD!</b></font id="orange">
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D. A. Barnes Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, 6 June 2010 1:42:48 AM(UTC)
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This has to be great news for us all and not before time. At last Holden have stepped in to stop the rubbish that has been churned out to date. In the second image there is a sign that says - "Holden Endorsed" and "made to original specifications". This means all parts now shall be of far superior quality and equalo to NOS. Rare Spares needs to be congratulated here as people can now restore their Holdens so that they are just like they were back in the day. Bring it on.
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petaus Offline
#20 Posted : Sunday, 6 June 2010 4:00:16 AM(UTC)
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i dont think holden would put there name on the rust panels would they???? lol
pete.
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