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RS-GM-H RESTORATION PARTS. Concours Judging.
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quote:
Originally posted by blameyone
How much can you take off an 81837, say a HK, before its not an 81837 any more.? If you now fit those parts to an 80337 is it now an 81837 ?....Jack
Does that include the tags? If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/ |
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quote:
Originally posted by petaus
who going to be the police on whats genuine and whats a repo, what about a carb that came from th u.s even thos the numbers are correct, i want to know the police qualifications???
pete. lol
my god we are gettibg as bad as the corvette guys
How about the judge issues 'infringement notices' for the areas of the car that are not correct? If the judge is Ben Stewart then he might have a task ahead of him with pen and paper. At least this way the Monaro owner will learn something out of it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
I think a few are getting the wrong idea of concours here.
The class was introduced to seperate the high quality restorations away from the other original cars. Just like we have mild custom, modified and show classes for modified cars. Cars in show class are the cars that some individuals go all out to make them their own, with clever ideas to show engineering, craftmanship etc.
So they get a $12 trophy, but look at how much money is spent on trying to win a premiership, gold medal etc. (I can manufacture a gold medal for less than it would cost in accommidation for an athlete at the olympics, suggest to an athlete that they should do that instead of striving for it, and that the only reason you are not an olympic athlete is because you could make the gold medal easily) We watch these sports people and admire them. Well we consider what we do as a sport and concours, like show class, is the top class.
The entry in show class and concours is enough for many alone. To ensure they get there they read the rules on what they have to do to thir cars to ensure they can be there and then what they need to do to compete. Is it anal, yes it is, but how many other top "sports people" get anal about what they do?
It is amazing what people do to their cars to ensure they are elegible for this class and rather than critisize them go and have a look at the detail they have gone to. Some are fine examples and ach year the standard rises.
Even in authentic class the standard has rise over the last 10 years, to the point that concours had to be introduced after only 2 Monaro nationals. Aother class introduced this year is survivor to also open up the stock classes.
Warren
Nicely put Warren. The Concours class is for cars that people who were there back in the day will love to look at. These cars also evoke fond memories of what Monaros were like many moons ago. Parts on these cars will be either right or wrong and our eyes will tell us this. My reading of the paperwork is that if it looks like a duck it is a duck. The last thing we want to hear is a comment that such and such a car has the wrong interior mirror in it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
As Warren has said, some guys are getting the whole concours judging thing all wrong.
If a talented panel beater can reproduce a replacement guard panel & fit it, paint it & make it good enough to appear as though it just left the factory & impress a judge, why can't any component of the car be made to the same level.
Remember these cars were not built by 21st century robots, they were put together by humans & as such, variations occurred in production. I have a big problem with cars that are 'over restored'. A concours car can still have 'factory' paint runs inside the boot side panels, that's they way most cars left the factory. It can still have imperfections in the way the underbonnet paint is finished. IMO a good concours car can only be as good as the best car the factory could produce on the day, which is no way perfect in every way.
There was a big drama a few years ago when a WWII style Jeep won the CMC/Shannons Eastern Creek Classic. This is arguably Australia's most prestigious multi-marque concours event & as such attracts everything from anal Jaguars & Cadillacs to top shelf Mustangs & Rolls Royce etc. Many could not understand how such a dowdy matt painted 'plain Jane' car could out-score impeccable 'prestige' marques. This car was a perfect example of how a Jeep would have been delivered new in the early 40s & simply out-scored the other cars using a well-proved judging/scoring system. The owner's attention to authentic detail (after some serious research) was stunning
The simple fact is that it is easier to recreate a factory look by starting with a simple car. As part of a judging panel we often chat together about how much easier it is to restore a Mini or early Holden than it is to do restore a Muscle car or something else from the late 60s/early 70s era.
Take a step back to think how we do all this as a hobby, we are not arguing over sheep stations. As someone else mentioned, trophies are cheap. It is up to the arbitrator on the day, (in this case Ben Stewart) to score the cars as he sees them. I know Ben & know of his integrity. If anyone knows a person more qualified or can do a better job, then come forward, there is always room for qualified/experienced judges in this arena.
Dr Terry
_______________________________________
The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.
Perfectly put. At the end of the day the best car must be the winner regardless of what it is. It would be good if you were involved in the judging at this event as you seem to have a lot of real world experience at this.
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Ben will need his toolbox too, they may need to disect the winning car to see if the correct parts are used..
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Where have I heard that before? c u at work tuesday cloudy!! signing off as discussed.(before more crap starts).! Jim in Adelaide...WTB CENTER LINE AUTO DRAGS 15X7 UPTO 8.5 WIDE. Edited by user Saturday, 12 June 2010 5:11:42 AM(UTC)
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Jim in Adelaide.. |
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in all due respect, but just who is ben anyways?? is he the monaro god? the saviour that shileds and guards everyone in the monaro wolrd from all the constant bickering that goes along with all the shows etc? was ben there when each and every monaro was put together and does he have a photographic memory of what went into each and every monaro that came off the assembly line?
like i said, in all due respect to ben, but just because he says so, doesnt mean it always IS so
"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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is there some sort of feed back to the owners of these cars? so for example is some one,s car came third in the class they know why they came third and the picticular area that let the car down i.e paint, engine bay,interior etc, that way people may go home less disgruntle.
pete.
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I have never had a car judged, but I'm sure I've read on this forum that having your car judged is a sure way to find out what is needed to be done.
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OK , make (build) your car the way you want it , If you want to impress Judges in an all out who's got the best Monaro, good luck to you ...... I'd hate to be in Ben's shoes unless ya Ben dover and suck him off !! cheers!!
 < Gotta Luv It! |
 <b><font color="orange">< 4 SALE , SELLING .......SOLD!</b></font id="orange"> |
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quote:
Originally posted by ITCH
OK , make (build) your car the way you want it , If you want to impress Judges in an all out who's got the best Monaro, good luck to you ...... I'd hate to be in Ben's shoes unless ya Ben dover and suck him off !!
cheers!!
< Gotta Luv It!
hahhahahhaa, i reckon ITCH should be judge, and i wanna be the dude counting the points afterwards, hahaha "Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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nah Wrecked . I'd be to picky . yanno like this sh1t box aint got a 9 inch WTF ...... Cheers!!
< Gotta Luv It! |
<b><font color="orange">< 4 SALE , SELLING .......SOLD!</b></font id="orange"> |
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quote:
Originally posted by ITCH
nah Wrecked . I'd be to picky . yanno like this sh1t box aint got a 9 inch WTF ......
Cheers!!
< Gotta Luv It!
or why aint this got a 540 in it??? hahaa "Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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Can i cum in my HT GTS ?? cheers!!
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quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
in all due respect, but just who is ben anyways?? is he the monaro god? the saviour that shileds and guards everyone in the monaro wolrd from all the constant bickering that goes along with all the shows etc? was ben there when each and every monaro was put together and does he have a photographic memory of what went into each and every monaro that came off the assembly line?
like i said, in all due respect to ben, but just because he says so, doesnt mean it always IS so
"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
We wreck, Ben is respected by many as probably being the most knowlegable in this area. No one person can know everything, but I'm certain his years of research puts him ahead of most & gives him the ammo needed to perform this task. It's not simply the matter of 'knowing what's correct' it's more to do with having the documentation to back it up & it's also the ability to manage a team of judges. If you know somebody that is likely to have any expertise or would like to assist, I'm sure he's all ears. Why are there so many knockers out there ? As I said earlier, we do this for fun, it's our hobby. Dr Terry _______________________________________ The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. |
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in all due respect, but just who is ben anyways??
If you do not know the answer to this question then you are not entering a car in this class and therefore irrelevent to you.
He has the confidence of those entering the class and that is all that matters.
It is not "normal" practice for feedback to be given to entrants in any sport. (Take diving, gymnastics etc, they are given a score for their performance. They can ask others to give then help into why the judges gave scores, but the judges do not normally give it direct)
It is the same with every car show I have ever been to. Any custom car judging is very much like judging the above and feedback has never been given to entrants that I know of. Anyone from the AllHolden committees here might be able to let us know if they give feedback.
Stock and concours is very different in that there is a very defined criteria. So if you ask any knowledgable person they should be able to tell you what parts are not original on your car. The sheets that are used in stock class have also been made available to people for many years, so you can go throughand judge it yourself. Also ask Ben to look at your car and I am sure he will give you a list of items that you could change to make your car more original if that is how YOU want to present YOUR car.
As has ben said before, not everyone wants to restore their car to original and not everyone of those wants concours. Each owner is after something diffeerent from their car.
Warren
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
quote:
Originally posted by we wreck 81837s only
in all due respect, but just who is ben anyways?? is he the monaro god? the saviour that shileds and guards everyone in the monaro wolrd from all the constant bickering that goes along with all the shows etc? was ben there when each and every monaro was put together and does he have a photographic memory of what went into each and every monaro that came off the assembly line?
like i said, in all due respect to ben, but just because he says so, doesnt mean it always IS so
"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
We wreck, Ben is respected by many as probably being the most knowlegable in this area. No one person can know everything, but I'm certain his years of research puts him ahead of most & gives him the ammo needed to perform this task. It's not simply the matter of 'knowing what's correct' it's more to do with having the documentation to back it up & it's also the ability to manage a team of judges.
If you know somebody that is likely to have any expertise or would like to assist, I'm sure he's all ears.
Why are there so many knockers out there ? As I said earlier, we do this for fun, it's our hobby.
Dr Terry
_______________________________________
The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.
so if i have collected all the bullitins, press release, GM internal copies of memo's, etc, street machine articles written by geoff paradise and john wright and memorised them, does that qualify me to be a concours d'eleganace judge? im not knocking him at all DOC,he may be the most qualified, but who is to be the judge of that? as you say, its for fun, a hobby, sure take the cars to a gathering to display them, have fun, and judging by all the posts and how everyone feels, i think we take this all to seriously now, even the GT boys seem to enjoy themselves more these days "Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.." Edited by user Saturday, 12 June 2010 7:47:08 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
in all due respect, but just who is ben anyways??
If you do not know the answer to this question then you are not entering a car in this class and therefore irrelevent to you.
your right, it probably is irrelevent to me anyways. "Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."
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Thank God for people like Ben.
I find Ben to be enourmously approachable helpful and knowledgeable.
If anyone knows of someone with more knowledge in this area than Ben please let the Nationals organising committee know so that person can be invited to help Ben at the event. I am sure they are short of people with that kind of knowledge.
Ben will be run off his feet at Warwick.
Nick
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whats peoples thoughts on this. talking to phil today he was not happy with this at all. Edited by user Saturday, 3 July 2010 8:42:07 AM(UTC)
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