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Biga064 Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, 17 October 2010 9:57:02 PM(UTC)
Biga064

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Hi Folks
I have a Eh holden 6 cylinder running a trimatic 3500 stall to a borg warner disc brake diff. When im accelerating between say 100 to 130- 150 ks the vehicle seems to develop a vibration that seems to hummmm hummmm hummm this is the best way to describe it as a hummm . It stays even when backed off until getting back down to 100km . All wheels been balanced and then checked again . New tailshaft and unis been balanced . Diff pinion and gearbox angles set correctly. Im am now at the stage of not knowing what it is ? Could Harmonic balancer be no good ? Could rear rims be machined off centre ? Engine is all balanced. Come on guys can you help ? Please Thanks again .
Keeo Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, 17 October 2010 10:18:12 PM(UTC)
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Hi ,easy to check harmonic balancer drive in a low gear at same rpm you get the vibration at.if car still has vibration in low gear then you may think its motor .What about wind vibrating somthing at high speed? oh hang on you say (when accelerating)maybe im wrong .anyhow its all i got cheers.
Utility8 Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, 17 October 2010 11:04:21 PM(UTC)
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My first instinct for such a vibration is the crankshaft & the diff pinion relative angles. Ideally, they should be parallel with around 0.5 to a max of 6.0 degrees of angle at both uni joints from memory. The critical point is that each angle must be the same. I.e. if one measures 2.5 degrees, so should the other. Google this info & you will find some very interesting articles & diagrams.
You mention that this alignment has been set correctly? Many EH's that have been modified over the years have the box hanging far lower than they should. The simple reason is the small size of the tunnel, particularly manual bodied cars, and lazy installers. Even auto bodied EH's need to have the tunnel modified slightly to get a Trimatic up far enough to achieve the correct crankshaft inclination.
With regard to EJ/EH's, to have the crankshaft angle, as from factory, the center of the output shaft of the auto should be in the range of 85 to 95mm from the floor directly above it.
Now add to this lowering the rear end, which I assume would have been done.
As leaf springs are reset to be lowered, they flatten out. As this happens, the front of the diff will start to point toward the ground. Wedges can be utilised to compensate for this change of the angle or relocating the spring saddles on the diff to create the correct angle for your particular car.
Lowering a car with lowering blocks does keep the factory setting of diff pinion angle, but brings other issues into the geometry.
Another mod that can change these angles is the old HR front end. Again, if not done correctly, to keep the motor in exactly the same orientation, this can alter these critical angles.
Each item in isolation may not vary the angles much. But if each variation is at the far end, problems may surface.
So, if the box is lower than it should be & the rear springs have been lowered, then I would look far more closely at the crankshaft & diff pinion alignment.
Experiment: Take the car for a drive with a couple of mates in the back seat. A couple of fat bastards preferably. No mates on hand, fill the boot with heavy stuff to lower the body of the car. Try to determine if the vibration changes when compared to just you in it. If so, the crankshaft & diff pinion alignment might be worth looking at.
I had this alignment issue in the car below. Once sorted, I was surprised at the difference it has made.
While under the car, check the diff pinion for sideways movement. A buggered pinion bearing will allow the tailshaft to wobble at high revs sending a vibe through the car.
Just noticed your earlier "unis in phase" question. This is referring to the unis having correct positioning on the driveshaft relative to each other. If you were to slide a broom handle into each of the empty weld yokes at each end of the driveshaft, they should be parallel.
The links below may help with better explanations.
http://www.4crawler.com/...icks/Driveline-101.shtml
http://www.hotrodhotline...rive_shaft_harmonics.php



Utility8

Edited by user Monday, 18 October 2010 1:21:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

utility8
Biga064 Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 18 October 2010 2:44:10 AM(UTC)
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Hi thanks for the replies Done some more checking crankshaft transmission angle 4.5 degrees . Diff pinion angle 4 degrees . Centre of gearbox shaft 102mm to centre of tunnel . Had a look at those articles you posted good reads . One article seems to suggest to keep transmission angle ideally at 1 degree down no more than 3 . I have 4.5 degrees . maybe i need to lift transmission up ? thanks again any more input much appreciated .
johnperth Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 18 October 2010 3:30:38 AM(UTC)
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make sure its not something silly like radiator fan first, and out of curiosity how often do you get to cruise at 140 anyway?
when I did the efi conversion to my 202, previous it had a top speed of about 110, after the conversion it ran to 140 and still had more, but the various vibrations increased greatly, due I am sure to stuff like wheels, tailshaft, etc.
one I found was the bolts attaching the torque convertor to the flywheel (OK drive plate) had come a bit loose and accounted for one noise.
disconnect the fan and water pump and alternator and see what happens.
apart from that at
Biga064 Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, 18 October 2010 6:33:37 AM(UTC)
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This engine does not have a engine fan . Everything is spot on . It has a induction setup on it thats worth more than most good hot holden red 6s. thats why this vibration is driving me insane !!!!
Utility8 Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, 18 October 2010 7:21:09 PM(UTC)
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Was the car at ride height on the ground, or on a 4 post hoist, when you measured the angles of alignment rather than having the diff hanging on jack stands?


Utility8
utility8
Biga064 Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 19 October 2010 2:24:01 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Utility8
Was the car at ride height on the ground, or on a 4 post hoist, when you measured the angles of alignment rather than having the diff hanging on jack stands?
All measured at ride on level shed floor with a digital protractor.

Utility8

Biga064 Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, 19 October 2010 2:34:08 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Biga064
quote:
Originally posted by Utility8
Was the car at ride height on the ground, or on a 4 post hoist, when you measured the angles of alignment rather than having the diff hanging on jack stands?

All measured at ride height on level shed floor with a digital protractor. Was able to make a spacer and push transmission up 10 mm . Now at 92 mm centre of shaft to tunnel .Biga064

Utility8


jim Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 19 October 2010 2:34:33 AM(UTC)
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Wheel bearings or a bent axle?,just throwing Ideas out for you,hard to tell from computers,just ideas for you to check out.

Jim in Adelaide..
Jim in Adelaide..
BIGCAV Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 19 October 2010 3:22:35 AM(UTC)
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flat spotted tyres?
Biga064 Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 19 October 2010 3:52:21 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by BIGCAV
flat spotted tyres?


No Tried different tyres , rims,wheel bearings you name it !!!!!
Premier 350 Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 22 October 2010 1:18:49 AM(UTC)
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Slightly bent tail shaft? Though the balance should have picked it up. Might pay to put a dial guage (showing my age now) on it.

Engine/gearbox mounts?

One pair of hands working does more than a thousand pairs praying.
Attn camry drivers. The accelerator is the skinny pedal on the right.
Keeo Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 22 October 2010 6:03:15 AM(UTC)
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If driveline geometry is right and everything else is balanced then maybee its the windddd vibratinnn somethinnn.he he
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