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billy has Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 5:55:24 AM(UTC)
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I'm looking to buy a 1979 VB SLE and would like to know if what i'm buying is genuine.

Model- VB8vx69
Body no- 660270L1
Trim- 1952-77y
Paint- 567-30851

L31 M41 G70

It's a shadow tone car (black/blue? over silver) with red interior.

If anyone can help with the paint names etc, it would be appreciated.
Thanks.
commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 6:24:41 AM(UTC)
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It's a VB SL/E sedan.
The body number would be about the right sequence for a Melbourne car, so the L1 at the end should be an M
Trim is: Aztec Silver (all one colour) with Carmine (red) interior trim.
Paint code is metallic, Aztec Silver.
L31 = 308/5.0L
M41 = TH400
G70 = 2.6:1 diff ratio.

It's a genuine 5L VB SL/E, but the shadowtone has been done later. This was a popular spruce up on VB-VH single colour cars in the day, to add a touch of prestige, and also as a cheap way of covering up the usual boot/roof/bonnet paint fade issues they suffered.
Cheers,

Mick
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billy has Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 6:37:59 AM(UTC)
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Thanks mick.

So this isn't a factory two tone SLE? You're saying that a previous owner had the black painted?





I thought that VB's had the option of shadow tone.
What would the shadow tone code be then?
Thanks
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 4:21:50 PM(UTC)
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1952 is Aztec silver all over (not 2-tone) so as Mick says it wasn't originally black top (that is assuming VB are the same as HZ in this area).

Mick, is it early VB or late VB? Late HZ still had M41 coding for TH350 fitted cars, just been looking for a VB that shows the same thing.
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commodorenut Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 4:28:44 PM(UTC)
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I've seen this car before - a mate of mine asked me to run the codes a few weeks back, and sent me additional photos of it.

It's definately painted later. VB did not have a shadowtone option at all - VC brought it in, and this has been painted to match a VC shadowtone car (and had VC over-riders fitted too). The biggest giveaway is this car is still silver under the bonnet & boot - genuine shadowtone cars are effectively the top done first, everywhere, then the bottom done in silver later - thus the underbonnet & boot match the top colour.

Also, VB, VC and '81 VHs still ran the tag with Paint/Top on it - and the genuine shadowtone VCs have both lines stamped with paint colours.

Byron - VBs all ran the TH400 behind the 5L, coded M41, and VC went to the TH350, coded M38.
(this is probably why late HZ changed - to line up with the commodore?)
Cheers,

Mick
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Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 5:54:59 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by commodorenut

Byron - VBs all ran the TH400 behind the 5L, coded M41, and VC went to the TH350, coded M38.
(this is probably why late HZ changed - to line up with the commodore?)

commodorenut, I beg to differ. The last 8 to 9 months production of VB (approx 7/79 onwards) used TH350 behind the 5.0 V8, not the TH400.

I believe the particular model of TH400 that Holden was using ceased production in the USA in 1978, so when GM-H used up existing stock they changed over to the TH350 for all 5.0 V8 autos.

Strangely they still used the M41 PO number for the TH350 in both VB & HZ. This situation was sorted out in VC & WB when they reverted to the correct M38 code.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 15 March 2012 9:56:01 PM(UTC)
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Cool, I knew late VB had TH350 as I have seen original cars with them, but never looked at the ID plates to see if they continued with M41 like the HZ did.

Funny that they didn't change to M38 immediately though as M38 code was already used for TH350 back as far as HJ, and it does make a big difference when ordering spares, servicing etc if the car is TH400 or TH350.
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billy has Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 16 March 2012 11:09:41 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.
justgm Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 19 March 2012 5:32:14 PM(UTC)
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I THINK YOU WILL FIND HJ WAS TH400 ONLY ( WITH 308 , SLR5000 HAD TRIMATIC STILL )NOT EVER FITTED WITH TH350 . MARK .
life is good in "Wine & Holden Marlborough "
Dr Terry Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 19 March 2012 6:01:39 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by justgm
I THINK YOU WILL FIND HJ WAS TH400 ONLY ( WITH 308 , SLR5000 HAD TRIMATIC STILL )NOT EVER FITTED WITH TH350 . MARK .

Mark.

What you say is correct for Australian delivered cars, but the M38 was used in export models from HJ onwards.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
justgm Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 19 March 2012 9:01:29 PM(UTC)
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Hi Terry , I did not know that , do you have any examples ? as we did not see TH350 until late VB & HZ . Sort of on the subject , do you know where that export HJ/X Belmont 5.0l was going to in your last book ? keep up the good work on Holden Facts !! Mark.
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HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 19 March 2012 11:06:59 PM(UTC)
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South African HJ behind 250ci 6cyl.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, 9 November 2014 11:21:27 PM(UTC)
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I have a 1973 HQ Premier wagon with 202 3 speed manual build plates built at Dandenong and owned by GMH Dandenong and GMH experimental engine department tested at Lang Lang with 350 Chev v8 and M39 TH350.
The reason i know this and the code is because i have the original books from day one and it is stamped General Motors Holden Dandenong as first owner and has the 350 chev engine number and M39 as trans written in the owners book along with the matching body and chassis numbers of the 202 3 speed HQ, So GMH modified an original Dandenong built 202 Hq prem wagon by dropping in a 350 chev th 350 combo.
I have looked into the M39 code and seems to be American TH350 code of the era so th 350 can be traced back before HJ series to the HQ.
That HQ's service book shows it did around 10, 000 klms in Two weeks so it must have been run around Holdens Lang Lang proving ground 24/7 non stop!
I collect anything related to GMH pilot or prototype cars and am always buying so let me know if forum members have any items to sell.
I already own this 1973 HQ test car a 1979 VC SLE prototype , pilot test car, 1987 HSV VL which is believed to be the first HSV VL Walkinshaw test mule and originally a factory Turbo manual car and last but not least the 1997 Holden pilot HSV VT GTS prototype.
If anyone has any GMH test cars, experimental or prototype cars for sale please contact me here.

Edited by user Monday, 10 November 2014 10:35:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

justgm Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 10 November 2014 1:39:22 AM(UTC)
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Hi Phil , what a great collection you have, I am always interested to hear about 350 HQ Prem wagons as i also have one. so does yours have the TH speedo hole in the firewall? & has the floor been cut for t-bar shift ? or maybe it was coloum shift to test what was coming out in HJ ? Mark.
life is good in "Wine & Holden Marlborough "
1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 12 November 2014 1:02:08 AM(UTC)
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Hi Mark.
My name isn't Phil.
The HQ was and still is a column shift.
Cheers.

Edited by user Wednesday, 12 November 2014 1:57:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 12 November 2014 1:10:45 AM(UTC)
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I believe the 350/ 350 combo in the HQ was a test for the TH350 in future models.
The 1973 HQ was sold by GMH Dandenong in 1974, my Dad bought the car from the second owner, well first owner after GMH back in the 1990's and it's been in our family ever since.
The reason for my post was to inform DR Terry that there were experimental cars or testing for TH350 back as far as HQ and the code for it at the time was not M38 but in fact M39.
Also the fact that GMH Dandenong built this test car out of a 202 manual Premier car.
I know GMH also built there XU2 V8 prototype test cars out of 6-cylinder Toranas and after testing most were converted back to 6-cylinder and sold to the public.
Point being, you should never assume just by the tags what a GMH car was or might have been.
I was recently lucky enough to find a GMH document with a print out of most every GMH and HSV prototype test car Vin, chassis and engine number from the late 1970's till late 1990's all of the test cars that got registered and or sold to the public. This has made finding some of these types of cars easier for me and i can tell you there are well over 2000 cars out there that are on the list, pilot , pre production, test and prototype cars and the numbers produced and which ones were sold to the public and no one knows they even exist.
One car i recently found and acquired had been sitting out the back of a used car yard in Melbourne's north for nearly 10 years with the owner not knowing what it really was resulting in me being able to purchase it for a price that would seem unbelievable for such a rare and significant car.
Another came from NSW a few months ago which the owner had a little idea of what it was but didn't follow up on the lead given to him by a previous owner which would have immediately resulted in the said vehicle being worth three times what i paid for it.
It amazes me where these cars end up and more so the fact the current owners don't know what they were or their significance.
When ever i buy a car i immediately start to trace the vehicles history and this may seem a hard thing to do to many of you out there, but in fact it's quite easy if you know how to do it and who to contact for the info.
After coming into possession of the list there have been many sleepless nights checking the vin numbers etc of Holden and HSV cars for sale on the net.
Its kind of a curse in a way finding those test car vin numbers, my missus thinks so anyway.
I just can't stop looking for them and its become an obsession., I just got back from a second trip to NSW for a test car, the guy that was selling it didn't even know what it once was or its significance.

Edited by user Wednesday, 12 November 2014 2:13:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Warren Turnbull Offline
#17 Posted : Wednesday, 12 November 2014 4:16:26 AM(UTC)
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I was lucky enough to recieve some intrenal memos for the purchase of ex GM-H vehicles and you are right there are some interesting cars on the list.

Some press cars, test mules etc.

The documents I have are for tender purpose, so people/dealers would tender on these lists and the cars sold to the highest tender.

We normally have 5 - 10 such cars at each Monaro Nationals, which is just a small portion of the cars out there.

Warren

Edited by user Thursday, 13 November 2014 4:01:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#18 Posted : Wednesday, 12 November 2014 4:29:45 AM(UTC)
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The 350/350 combo may well have been a test for the later Series cars as probably by then they'd have known the TH350 was to replace the TH400 in 5 or so years time. They would already have had most of the required mounting bits - as mentioned above the M38 TH350 was in use in HJ in South African vehicles in 1974/5 and probably already in use in South African HQ. It was definitely M38 in HJ - I have multiple GMH documents referring to it as such. HJ was designed also for a 400/TH400 initially - it was to be the standard driveline in the new Caprice.
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