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is it a perpetual trophy? if not there probably should be one made available for the next nationals....
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quote:
Originally posted by hqgts
is it a perpetual trophy? if not there probably should be one made available for the next nationals....
I have been told by the SA 2014 comittee that it will be.
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Food for thought.
The HQ (Aqua Marine) LS mentioned above was DRIVEN!!! from Victoria to take out third Concours. Great effort in any class.
Well Done
Rockett
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50% attendance compared to the eastern states is spot on. The FE/FC nationals were in Perth at easter, they got around 60 cars and normally get around 120 over here. My brother in law drove his FC across from Brisbane, towing a van. He went early because of the floods. He travelled with two other FE/FCs towing vans, one from Northern NSW the other from Townsville. the guy in Townsville went via Mt Isa and Alice Springs to avoid the flood and met the other two in SA. All that went had a great time and adventure.
I discussed numbers with the WA club at Loxton, the aim for them was to get as many locals and see what came from interstate. The reasoning being was that when I was there in 2003 there were plenty of V2s, by attracting these guys they could make it viable. They achieved this.
Those who went I am sure had a great time, someone will have got a trophy that others do not think they deserve, it happens every time. (even in the classes that Ben, myself and other Monaro experts classified and judged). But they were there and they got it, the rest is history. No amount of protesting will take the trophy/record off them (no Lance Armstrong here)
Good to see the photos from the event, thanks to the guys for sharing.
I would like to have gone, but circumstances did not allow it. Looking forward to see how the SA boys go for their second nationals. SHould be good as all the guys from their first are still active in the club. They can let the others know about all the pit falls.
Warren
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quote:
Originally posted by hqgts
Yep.... I didnt mention factory authentic and yes there were many fine examples of all models.... I said concours... And the car that won was the same car that didnt win 2 years ago so I stand by my opinion that the bar was NOT raised....
Btw the car that won should not have even been in concours.... But thats another argument entirely I guess
Very interesting discussion. Concours quality cars are supposed to be of a super high dead original quality. I remember that two of the cars at Warwick were exactly this (the yellow and brown HKs). The third car (Orange HT) was also of a very high quality but was far from Concours. More like a show type car. Is this the car that has won at this latest event? If it was the best in the Concours class then it wins, but for my money it sounds like the Concours class should not have been offered at all if there were not super high quality dead original cars present. The 2004 Bathurst Monaro event did not have a Concours class for this very reason as I asked the guys doing it at the time. Simply offering a particular class to keep people happy is a sure fire way to lower standards. Concours should not have a different meaning at different events.
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[/quote] The third car (Orange HT) was also of a very high quality but was far from Concours. More like a show type car. Is this the car that has won at this latest event?
[/quote]
same car.... Presented the same as it was at warwick..... A very nice HT but not concours...
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At bathurst there was only one car presented for Concours and it was not up to standard and therefore put in original class. I think from memory it won its model class in original.
The Orange HT was classified as being a Concours car at Warwick, and I think it may have at other nationals. If it was good enough to be classified as Concours at Warwick then why not at Busselton? (If you are saying it is not a concours car then why was it in this class at Warwick? Are you saying we got it wrong at Warwick?)
As for the standard, or if should have won. As I see it, the first olympics that Bolt is not at, will we say the fellow that wins the 100m sprint should not have, unless he beats Bolt's Olympic/world record. To me it is about who was the best on the day. The guy came third at Warwick, the others did not turn up so he took it in WA.
As for the number of cars, as the nationals go one car in a class is enough. Especially at the two ends show class and concours. To bump these cars back to modified and authentic would be unfair on the cars in these classes.
Lets look forward to more cars in SA in 2 years time. I am sure there will be more a higher number in the top classes.
Warren
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I'm estimating 10 Monaros in the HKTG Concours class for 2014. Can't wait. |
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I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here. I believe I've had this conversation before (in person) with some on the forum here.
I've been a concours judge for nearly 10 years, at arguably Australia biggest classic car show, Shannons Eastern Creek Classic where we get 1900 to 2000 cars at each event (annually) with 20 to 25 cars in concours. These cars are of every marque, we get everything from Rolls, Jags, Holdens, MGs, to Fords etc. etc. dating back to veteran (pre 1919). We allow all comers. If somebody thinks that their car is worthy, we let them enter.
If a car is not good enough it is judged accordingly, If we set the entry bar too high we get very few entrants. The cream will always rise to the top, regardless of the number of cars entered, setting the bar too high for entry, makes it appear too elitist. IMHO anyway.
I say the more cars & more spectators, the better the show. Making it too restrictive spoils it for everyone.
Dr Terry |
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
As for the number of cars, as the nationals go one car in a class is enough. Especially at the two ends show class and concours. To bump these cars back to modified and authentic would be unfair on the cars in these classes.
Greetings, That one entry would need to be of the 'expected' standard though. A Concours class entry should be of a certain standard. If the car wasn't up to scratch, then leaving it in Concours class isn't going to magically make it a better car. Reading this post has revealed that this may be perhaps the reason for the bickering on this matter. Most people know what a Concours class car is. |
look out, the guru is coming through... |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here. I believe I've had this conversation before (in person) with some on the forum here.
I've been a concours judge for nearly 10 years, at arguably Australia biggest classic car show, Shannons Eastern Creek Classic where we get 1900 to 2000 cars at each event (annually) with 20 to 25 cars in concours. These cars are of every marque, we get everything from Rolls, Jags, Holdens, MGs, to Fords etc. etc. dating back to veteran (pre 1919). We allow all comers. If somebody thinks that their car is worthy, we let them enter.
If a car is not good enough it is judged accordingly, If we set the entry bar too high we get very few entrants. The cream will always rise to the top, regardless of the number of cars entered, setting the bar too high for entry, makes it appear too elitist. IMHO anyway.
I say the more cars & more spectators, the better the show. Making it too restrictive spoils it for everyone.
Dr Terry
Greetings Dr Terry, Very well put and you have included the answer for the bickering. The key is "not good enough it is judged accordingly". This will only work if you have numerous entries. The owner/s learn from the process. If only one car is entered then it doesn't work for either the benefit of the event nor the owner. I'm not sure the comment "makes it appear too elitest" is relevant here. The car event being discussed is a Nationals event of a single marque. It would be difficult for this event to be seen as "too elitest" given the range of cars entered. There would be cars of all levels of condition and presentation. Concours cars would need to be of the highest level even more so than at the Shannons event you mention (all marques). It's not about being too restrictive if a particular class doesn't have any suitable entrants. You get that sometimes. |
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quote:
Originally posted by git
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
As for the number of cars, as the nationals go one car in a class is enough. Especially at the two ends show class and concours. To bump these cars back to modified and authentic would be unfair on the cars in these classes.
If the car wasn't up to scratch, then leaving it in Concours class isn't going to magically make it a better car.
The car was scrutineered and classified as to fitting the criteria, set down by the Monaro nationals Judging manual, as being a concours worthy car at Warwick. So if nothing changed between Warwick and Busselton why would it not be up to scratch? Unless, like I said, it was incorrectly classified at Warwick. Incorrect classification of cars in this class at Warwick has already been a major debate, with many believing that the winning car should not have been in the class due to some contradictions with the judging manual. The judging manual was created to allow more clear instructions as to how cars are classified. This is to ensure that a car that wins a class is actually eligible to win it. A good example would be some of the comments from Bendigo. A car won an original trophy yet it had extractors. The car should not have been in the class as extractors are not allowed. If cars are classified correctly and there is only one car in the class then it is the winner. The key to the whole thing is every car in a class should be eligible to win that class. If they are not eligible to win, ie do not meet the criteria, they should be in a different class. Warren
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