There is no doubt that in a sport where you need to use equipment, that the equipment is critical in success. Ie do you think they would be getig the results in cycling if they used standard bikes. He who has the best bike increases his chances of success.

In saying that you have to compare the top drivers at the time. Bond was a great driver both on the track and dirt, whch Brock was not.

Moffat was good in a number of series, he ran the Mustang as well as the Falcons.

Interestingly Johnson ran an HDT XU1 at lakeside when the LH came out and was very competetive with the HDT car compared to his XU1. (they gave him the car for the day. Had Johnson become part of HDT we may never of heard of Brock. The difference being Johnson was in Queensland. Many who saw Johnson running up hear beleive him to be the better driver in the early 70s)

There is no doubt that there were a number of top class drivers during that period, and Brock was definatley one of the best of them. But I would agree that the cars he drove had a lot of input to ensure they were winning.

He was high profile right from the early 70s and was able to pull good sponsorship to build great cars to go racing.

Warren

IMHO, Peter Brock was one of the most naturally talented touring car drivers this country has ever seen. He had the ability to just jump into a car (any car) & get the best out of it very quickly. Yes, he did have some of the best equipment at some points in time, but he could still make a crappy car work.

Look at his success when he was away from HDT, he won the 1975 Bathurst as a private entry on a shoestring budget. Again, when he ran Team Brock in 1976/77 out of the Bill Patterson dealership, he went very well.

Look at the success of his horrible little home-built Holden-powered Austin A30, that's when Harry Firth took notice. Again look at the 1987 Bathurst where he was awarded the win after the Eggenberger Sierras were disqualified, that VL was a box of spare parts, his good car killed its engine mid-race so he swapped cars into the 'dunger' & still won.

He had success in the 1979 Repco trial, yes great cars & good back-up but he out-performed the other (more experienced at rally) drivers in the same team.

The current record of M. Skaife & C.Lowndes of who has had the most ATCC rounds (90 each) is dwarfed by Brock's record, if you include all those Bathursts, Sandowns, Endurance & Manufacturer Championships that he won. None of these were part of the ATCC back then.

The only other tin top drivers who I've witnessed with anything approaching his natural ability were Ian (Pete) Geoghegan & Norm Beechey.

Dr Terry

He was clearly light years ahead in the wet.
They don't stick average drivers in the best teams and the best cars. They have the best drivers.
He was fast in any car. 1987 at Bathurst he hopped in his small budget teams second car. As he said himself, that car was not expected to even finish the race. You may remember how much faster that car lapped with him in it. He pushed it from no where to 3rd place (eventual winner months later).
To say he was anything but an excellent driver is tall popy syndrome.

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Originally posted by wbute
Dick Johnson is famous because he was Peter Brocks rival and he hit a rock. Alan Moffat is famous because he was Peter Brocks rival.

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I think that is a little unfair.

Moffat's ability to make his tyres go the distance in the 1969 race showed his empathy with a race car. His record in a Ford is unsurpassed from 1969 to 1978. He was fiercely competitive, but he was a win or DNF man. Have a look at his Bathurst record.

Dick Johnson was the right man at the right time. If he never got his Tru Blue XD to beat the Commodores when there was no one else in a Ford you may not have heard of him. That XD was perhaps a lot faster than it should have been. His life would have panned out a lot differently if he hadn't hit a certain rock at Bathurst in 1980.

Dr Terry

Not unfair at all. Moffat and Johnson had little public charisma to go with their ability. To be next to Brock lifted their profile enormously. Brock lifted touring cars as a race series. Ask joe blow today who is a great driver and they will give you a blank look and then say Peter Brock.

quote:

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Originally posted by HK1837
Also don't forget Brock should have at least one more Bathurst win credited to him, he was robbed by a lap scoring mistake which really was his first of 10 wins. Also another win was his, only to be robbed by 2 x stuff-ups by his co-driver. Add those in and you have:

1969, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1987.

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I agree with 1973, that was a race that he lost thru no fault of his own, he should have won it, but that's racing !!

I do have problems with the supposed 1969 'win' though. I've been thru the lap charts with a Ford/Bathurst nut & I can't see the 'mistake', certainly not like the 1976 Harvey 'win' anyway.

Dr Terry

Allan Moffat would have won Bathurst in 69, except for the fact he was ordered to pit, to change tyres that didn't need changing. His tyre's were fine, because he knew how to drive the car, unlike many other's whose tyre's kept blowing out.

Hi Guys
Thanks for your comments. Its hard not to agree with everything that has been said one way or the other.
For what it is worth, my opinion is that while he was always one of the very best drivers, there were others that could do a lap of Mount Panorama with the same level of skill.
I can remember sitting on the top of the mountain next to some drunken yob screaming his head off for Brock when 05 would go by when in reality, the car was being piloted at that moment by Richards or Perkins.
The point is you couldn't tell who the actual driver was as they were so close in skill level anyway.

But there is more to Peter Brock than just his driving ability. In the 80s my older brother was a manager for Mobil at their now defunct Sydney facility. Managers were entitled to passes to the Mobil hospitality tent at Bathurst each year. Strange as it may seem, most of the managers were not really into cars and were not interested in spending their long weekend at Bathurst.

We used to use the passes and of course as the major sponsor of the dealer team, the drivers would mingle and give speeches at the end of the race.
One year John Harvey came in and addressed the Mobil people after the race. He is a good speaker and a nice guy, but it was very obvious that everyone wanted to hear from Brockie.
When he came into the tent the reaction was astounding. Just by being in the room, he put everybody else into the shade.
And for me that is a great part of the Brock legend. He had a natural charisma that made him stand out from his peers.

Another sportsman who seemes to have a similar gift would be Shane Warne. Love him or hate him, there are cricket fans all over the world that would do anything to see him play.
Brockie had the same effect on his fans and was lucky enough to have two gifts. Driving ability and a magnetic personality.

It must be in the Australian psyche to elevate the likes of Peter Brock & Shane Warne to God-like status. In their private lives these guys were a long way from perfect (or even acceptable for that matter), but they were the best in their chosen profession & because of that all else is forgiven.

Is Ned Kelly in the same boat ? Are we the only people in the world who think that a criminal scumbag like Ned Kelly is some sort of hero ?

Am I getting off track ?

Dr Terry

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr Terry
It must be in the Australian psyche to elevate the likes of Peter Brock & Shane Warne to God-like status. In their private lives these guys were a long way from perfect (or even acceptable for that matter), but they were the best in their chosen profession & because of that all else is forgiven.


Dr Terry

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Exactly Doc. People either have no idea what Brock got up to in his private life, or they chose to ignore it because as you say he had been elevated to god like status.

Larry Perkins, now there is a guy that can steer a car and a true gentleman as well. Didnt squeal like a pig when the Sierra's were whipping the commodores, just got down to business doing the best job that he could with the equipment he had.