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Well i have been in the car with Brock and yes he was a very smooth driver and the king of Bathurst because of it and remember the cars were very weak, M21 box and banjo diffs and the motors were not like today's race motors.
The cars have nothing in common now with nowdays cars or the racing, so i would say he was a legend of that era but all the drivers are good.
Fans are just dilettants.
I hate the racing we have now and loved that era gone by with real cars.
Gricey he is the best bloke Perky and Moffat are tops to. Dicky Boy he is a bit of a whinger.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
It must be in the Australian psyche to elevate the likes of Peter Brock & Shane Warne to God-like status. In their private lives these guys were a long way from perfect (or even acceptable for that matter), but they were the best in their chosen profession & because of that all else is forgiven.
I don't think it is just Australian, many sportspeople world wide are or have been flawed, some in major ways, but are still adored by many because of how talented whether it be natural or just plain hard work. Tiger Woods is a perfect example. Diego Maradonna is another. I am and have been a great critic of the human sides of Shane Warne and Andrew Johns as two well known Australian examples who both are close to the best that has ever been in their respective sports. However I do not hold any of that against them as sportspeople, I reckon their on-field performances stand alone to be admired. I think at least in the Rugby League cirles many influential people agree as Johns was recently made an immortal despite his off-field indescretions! To me Brock is in the same category of flawed elite spotspeople. |
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Facts and opinions often differ. The antics of brock in the A30 and the win/starts percentage is phenominal. Thats what got him noticed.
But the bottom line on his driving ability is in comparison to his team mates driving the same cars. There were a lot of talented drivers partnered with Brock in the HDT team cars over the years, What team mate was faster than Brock in a HDT car? When you findout the answer to that question and see the lap time differences, then you will know how good he was.
Other comments
Aussie icons with public opinion immunity, there are lots of them with the teflon reputation where nothing sticks and all is forgiven/forgotten in the euphoria of their on field performance. But its not uniquely an aussie thing as others have mentioned. Think about O.J. Simpson still hailed as a demi-god. or George Best
Peter Geoffrey Brock, the greatest touring car driver I have ever seen, the rest is smoke and mirrors!
Cheers
Balfizar
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Thats is the ideal point. What driver's were faster in an HDT car.
The only comparison I have is 1974 when the LH was being "tested" before the L34. HDT came to Lakeside with both XU1 and SLR5000. Brock ran SLR500 Johnson was handed the HDT XU1 for the day and from memory (a long time since I read the article) Johnson was faster in the HDT XU1 than the HDT team before on that track. Brock was faster in the SLR5000.
Johnson was on his home track so that would have been an advantage. But the HDT XU1 would have been fairly different to his XU1.
Interestingly after the XU1, Johnson could no longer get sponsorship to run the Holden flag and never raced an LH to my knowledge.
Warren
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I am guessing that very few people go through life having not done something they may regret or is deemed wrong. But to compare a sporting personality to Nef Kelly is a long bow to draw indeed. A lot of bushrangers were mass murders at best. Thunderbolt was actually more or less murdered by police. He was actually quite a respected person if you do some research into his life. A real character.
Brock was the best at what he did. The results stand to prove that fact. He also was responsible for creating some very enjoyable cars for the public to drive. He gave back to his fans. Showed them respect. That is why he is remembered today the way he is.
Just look at old footage of him setting the lap record at Bathurst in 1979. He has his arm resting on the door of the car most of the time. It was as easy for him as you or I driving down the freeway.
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Yes, that was an amazing lap. I remember hearing it was supposed to be an "up yours" moment to old Harry who tried to leash Brock a bit with the adage of "only do what you need to do to win". He wasn't a great fan of being a show pony! From memory it was Bathurst 1974 when Brock was in front by a country mile and gave the L34 a bit too much stick, against Harry's instructions. I don't think Brock came back to HDT again until Harry was gone. |
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During my years as a journalist, I have been fortunate enough to meet and interview five great Australians.
Sir Jack Brabham, Phillip Irving, Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan and Peter Brock.
Each filled me with a sense of awe that I was speaking with a true legend of Aussie motorsport (especially Sir Jack and Phil).
In each case, their record of achievement had set them apart from their peers.
Without actually knowing it, I am quite sure each of them had or have their failings as all humans do, but they still remain legends.
Cheers!
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I don't know why people have to look up to someone due to their saintly walks. if the dude is only a racing car driver, that is all i would class him on, same for any sports man. i don't idolise people at all. but respect them for their achievements. Ty Cobb would be the only person i know who fill me with awe, as a great man. mainly because he spoke his mind and did not care at all, what others thought of him, as he did not need to, truth be known. ha ha ! Edited by user Tuesday, 12 March 2013 8:08:59 AM(UTC)
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Why is it that we adore sportspeople and racing car drivers in Australia more than say a philanthropist or a brilliant heart or brain surgeon?
Heck, the late Dr Victor Chang or Dr Fred Hollows should be revered as much as Peter Brock.
I think the appeal of Peter Brock and the like is that he appeals to the masses rather than a select few.
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Dr Victor Chang and Dr Fred Hollows ARE revered as much as Peter Brock, or any of the four other 'legends' listed.
In a different way and perhaps by different people, but this is a motoring forum. Sorry!
Cheers - Cog-swapper.
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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
I don't know why people have to look up to someone due to their saintly walks. if the dude is only a racing car driver, that is all i would class him on, same for any sports man. i don't idolise people at all. but respect them for their achievements.
Ty Cobb would be the only person i know who fill me with awe, as a great man. mainly because he spoke his mind and did not care at all, what others thought of him, as he did not need to, truth be known. ha ha !
Ty Cobb, Ty Cobb! He did not care at all what others thought of him, because no one had a good word to say about him not even his team mates. a beligerant nasty piece of work he was. A good game to TY Cobb was when he spiked someone or started a fight. Records Yes admirable qualities NO. I prefer the true gentlemen of the Game with immence talent as well. Jackie Robinson, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan great people on and off the field and worthy of admiration. And a true character Lawrence Peter Berra (Yogi) Yankees Catcher famous for his game skills as well as his one liners. Its like deja vu all over again. You can observe a lot just by watching. The future ain't what it use to be. Ty Cobb may have been a winner on the field but he was a loser in the game of life. Brock:- The greatest touring car driver I have ever seen, the rest is smoke and mirrors. Cheers Balfizar Edited by user Thursday, 14 March 2013 4:07:57 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Balfizar
Ty Cobb, Ty Cobb! He did not care at all what others thought of him, because no one had a good word to say about him not even his team mates. a beligerant nasty piece of work he was. A good game to TY Cobb was when he spiked someone or started a fight. Records Yes admirable qualities NO. I prefer the true gentlemen of the Game with immence talent as well. Jackie Robinson, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan great people on and off the field and worthy of admiration.
What sport are all these guys from? I've never heard of any of them! |
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Ah, that's why! I thought at first VFL/AFL but even then I thought one of their names would have cropped up somewhere and i'd heard it. |
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I guess you could ask the question another way.
If you have a look at the intro to Bathurst 2012 on You Tube they talk about Peter Brock as if he is in another class from all the other drivers. Fact or Myth?
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We'll never see a motor racing era where one driver can dominate the leaderboard over such a short period of time (late 70s-early 80s) - for a variety of reasons - machinery advantage, under-developed competition, less competitive drivers (who had day jobs, not a dedicated career as a race driver), various freedoms/flexibility in the rules, and very different race strategies (no safety cars) etc etc.
These days are just so different - there's big $ teams, development to the enth degree, and the best safety car strategy (and a bit of luck) can be the win/lose moment of the race, not driving ability.
We can see 6 different winners across 6 different races - we don't see the one-man domination anymore.
That's where some of the awe comes from - especially the younger crop of drivers who weren't even born when Brock was dominating, so they only have the heresay & legend to go off, and didn't experience first hand the period when he was nearly always #1 at the checquered flag. |
Cheers,
Mick
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I think what holds Brock above all others is not just his driving but his PR. He was one of the few celebs that knew it was the public that made him. he always had time for everyone, no matter how rude the public was he always smiled and did what he had to.
I once had to look after him at an event and someone came up to him for a signiture during his dinner, he signed it. He was not happy that it happened but he got on with it. He gave a lot of people good memories, driving, meeting etc.
We are all flawed. What should we remember people for?
Warren
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quote:
Originally posted by Balfizar
quote:
Originally posted by castellan
I don't know why people have to look up to someone due to their saintly walks. if the dude is only a racing car driver, that is all i would class him on, same for any sports man. i don't idolise people at all. but respect them for their achievements.
Ty Cobb would be the only person i know who fill me with awe, as a great man. mainly because he spoke his mind and did not care at all, what others thought of him, as he did not need to, truth be known. ha ha !
Ty Cobb, Ty Cobb! He did not care at all what others thought of him, because no one had a good word to say about him not even his team mates. a beligerant nasty piece of work he was. A good game to TY Cobb was when he spiked someone or started a fight. Records Yes admirable qualities NO. I prefer the true gentlemen of the Game with immence talent as well. Jackie Robinson, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan great people on and off the field and worthy of admiration.
And a true character Lawrence Peter Berra (Yogi) Yankees Catcher famous for his game skills as well as his one liners.
Its like deja vu all over again.
You can observe a lot just by watching.
The future ain't what it use to be.
Ty Cobb may have been a winner on the field but he was a loser in the game of life.
Brock:- The greatest touring car driver I have ever seen, the rest is smoke and mirrors.
Cheers
Balfizar
Ha ha! as for a true sports person he was the best by far, no one could come close. it does not matter how he did it, but he did. and the proof speaks for it's self. anyone who got spiked was a fool, as he was there to win, not hold hands with the enemy and it was the windbags who provoked the fights. Quality is what he was, perfection in motion. As for his team mates, he was the main man by far, they could not hold his jock strap. a nice person, no! not at all. and he says as such. he lived baseball not for the money or anything but the love of it. he never went out to intend to harm anyone, but others thought he did, he showed them one season how it could be done, just to prove a point to the windbags. he says his life was baseball! even thou he was up their becoming one of the wealthiest men in the USA. and the financial help he gave to communities was beyond any other sports man ever. He had problems with peoples trust etc due to his mum blowing his dads head off when he was a boy because she was in bed with another man.
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Oh well, you can look up to Tye Cobb if you please. He has no meaning to me I am afraid.
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There will only ever be one Peter Brock, the Best touring car driver this country will ever produce.
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