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-----> 253 v8 Red Or Blue Motor... ???
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hello guys i have been looking everywhere but can't seem to find much about the advantages and disadvantages of the 253 Red and 253 blue engine so any help would be much appreciated i am not fusted about emissions just economy and long term reliability atm i am looking at ether a 253 Red Motor with Quadrajet and extractors or 253 Blue Motor with Quadrajet and extractors 1. what are to pro's and con's of ea of them? 2. would the 253 red or 253 blue have beter fuel economy 3. would the 253 red or 253 blue have more power 4. would the 253 red or 253 blue have more Torque 5. would the 253 red or 253 blue be a more reliable engines 6. are there any other simpel mods/things to Help with economy,reliability and power / Torque(without sacrificing economy and reliability) allso some ppl are saying that 253 blue motor from a WB have more power and Torque then one from a VH is this true? Kind Regards Paul Edited by user Sunday, 26 May 2013 10:56:38 PM(UTC)
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None are really better than others today. When they were new the best ones were manual blue motor as they had 4BBL carby and HEI ignition, and no EGR on manuals. But if you are bulding one today any will do, just use the right 4BBL manifold, Quadrajet carby and a HEI dizzy with cam to suit the application. If it was me i'd use any 253 block, HX-HZ spec pistons (these were 9.4:1 compression), HQ-HJ heads, HT-HJ 308 inlet manifold, blue 253 carby and HEI distributor with whatever cam was needed. |
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Might depend what car you are going to put it in as far as rego rules go also.
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thanks but rego rules are not a problem :)
cool whats advantage HT-HJ 308 inlet manifold? and advantage HQ-HJ heads ?
i was hoping not to start from scratch if i can help it just change some bits like carbys,dizzy etc
atm i know of 3 ppl with 253s to sell
1. 253 blue from a WB with a auto Trans
2. 253 red fully reconditioned
3. 253 blue from a VH with a auto Trans
4. start from scratch rebuild one
5. i keep looking
kind regards
Paul
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HT-HJ 308 inlest is a 4BBL, same 253 is a 2BBL, and they are a really good manifold, flow almost as well as an Edelbrock Performer. Pollution red 308 manifold (HX-HZ) are an utter dog.
The HQ-HJ heads suit the above manifold. HT-HG heads are missing an accessory hole on either end, but otherwise are the same thing.
What is the applicaion? |
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quote:
Originally posted by OhFor88Smiley
thanks but rego rules are not a problem :)
cool whats advantage HT-HJ 308 inlet manifold? and advantage HQ-HJ heads ?
i was hoping not to start from scratch if i can help it just change some bits like carbys,dizzy etc
atm i know of 3 ppl with 253s to sell
1. 253 blue from a WB with a auto Trans
2. 253 red fully reconditioned
3. 253 blue from a VH with a auto Trans
4. start from scratch rebuild one
5. i keep looking
kind regards
Paul
For simplicity, economy & reliability I would go with either option 1 or option 3, depending on what type of car you are going to use it for. They already have a good carby, manifold & dissy. Dr Terry |
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Yep buy the best blue motor that has the correct sump etc to suit. Commodore and wb are different. Blue 253 are an underrated engine.
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Apart from the dizzy, inlet and carby they are basically the same motor as a HQ-HJ 253. HX-HZ has significantly higher compression. So if you want to buy a whole engine ready to go as Dr Terry says the blue engine is a good option. However if you start from scratch you can achieve the exact same result from using early heads with early 4BBL manifold and a blue 253 carby and dizzy. Of course on a rebuild you'd use a better cam than the standard one, use adjustable timing gears to get the cam timed correctly and get the dizzy regraphed to suit the usage. If you find a really good HX-HZ or VB 253 you can use it too, but buy a KC castings 4BBL manifold - it is a replica of the blue 253/308 manifold but it fits all heads, plus blue 253 carby and dizzy. In teh case of the HX-HZ engine i'd also fit a new cam and adjustable timing gears.
The othe rthing that should always be done to these is a new oil pump. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
HX-HZ has significantly higher compression.
It depends on your definition of 'significant'. HT-HJ 253 had a CR of 9.0:1, HX-HZ were 9.4 & the Blue 253 had 9.0. Given the current octane rating of pump fuel, is chasing 9.4 worth it ? Economy is a funny thing, it should include being frugal with the engine build in the first instance. Engine builds can end up costing big $$, especially if you do it yourself & get it wrong or have a pro do it for you. The $$$ spent on a camshaft & dissy here or an inlet manifold there plus a 'few' gaskets buys a lot of petrol. Paul's two criteria were economy & reliability !! Fit a stock, untouched Blue 253. Dr Terry |
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And get it dyno tuned properly.
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Terry, chasing 10:1 is worth it! It just depends upon the cam used and hence the application. My Prem is 9.7:1 and runs fine on 98 octane fuel. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Terry, chasing 10:1 is worth it! It just depends upon the cam used and hence the application. My Prem is 9.7:1 and runs fine on 98 octane fuel.
Byron, you are correct, but that's in a perfect world. Paul wants a budget solution & this doesn't necessarily include swapping heads & pistons, changing cams & using Premium (priced) petrol. Dr Terry |
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Yes for sure, but original question asked for red motor with Quadrajet and extractors or blue motor with Quaddy & extractors. So depending upon the build config and price and what is on it, the fully recoed 253 in Paul's second post might be a better option. Again depends upn who bult it and if it was done well. Primarily as I always worry about the quality of secondhand engines, unless of course you can run them, drive them and compression test them. They are always an unknown. I've had so many of these over the years and they often seem to develop unexpected problems like welch plugs leaking within 12 months, head gaskets letting go etc, probably as a result of sitting for a fair while. If they are cheap enough it can be worth the risk, but I wouldn't be paying top dollar for an engine just because it is a blue motor. If it is cheap enough take the risk, at least you pick up the base for a good engine if it needs a rebuild. Whenever i've bought a secondhand one of these i've always at least replaced the oil pump, flushed the engine with clean oil (change after a few hours running and change the filter), and fitted new water welsh plugs. If i've had to replace the sump (eg if Paul bought the Commodore engine and wanted it for a HX) i've lifted a few bearings and tested them with plastiguage, surprisingly a few of them like less than 120,000kM have had good journals but clearances were a bit high with obvious wear on the bearings, so a new set of bearings made them perfect again. I've also found a few with good compression but worn oil pump and hence worn cam. A new cam and lifters with the oil pump and they were like new engines again. |
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hello sorry for the late reply.
thank you guys for the great replies and debate so much useful info :D
is atm 71 HG kingswood wagon with a red 186,bullbar,brake booster,air shocks and helpers in the back and v8 springs in the front and goes almost anywhere :D
the plan was to add
253 V8 with a toyota W50 Steel 5 speed box
HQ front Disks
HQ Back drums salisbury diff with a detroit locker
v8 radiator
lift and diff locker as i do a lot of camping and exploring in the country and will be good with some of the doggy tracks i go down :)
5 speed for the over drive on the hightway on long trips
253 v8 for when i am towing the tandem trailer loaded up
all of them are out of the cars so can't see them running
i know what you meen i have had many people say yes the motor is good and then it turns out to be throwaway so it would be nice to start from scratch but it's a lot of work and time etc
1. 253 blue from a WB with an auto Trans ( $250 unknown kms they say it was running well before pulled
2. 253 red fully reconditioned ( around $800 i will have to find out what's been done but as far as i know is just stock and has not been run yet
3. 253 blue from a VH with an auto Trans ( $300 280,000kms they say it was running well before pulled
4. start from scratch, rebuild one ( $no idea what it would cost
if i did start from scratch i would do as much as i could myself.
is this right? or did i miss something ?
HX-HZ block/pistons (these were 9.4:1 compressionas and the Red 253s have different counterwieght that rev hader)
HT-HJ 308 inlest (4BBL with beter flow)
HQ-HJ heads (suit the above manifold. and are not missing an accessory hole on either end that is needed)
blue 253 Quadrajet (good performance economy)
blue 253 HEI Dizzy (good performance economy)
take off any emissions gear (good performance economy)
i have seen somewhere ppl say this will help a bit as well. any truth in this ?
the Red 253s are better (have different counterwieght that rev harder)
machine out the 4 holes in manifold so it is only one big hole ( better performance economy)
308 stock cold air intake air cleaner ( better performance economy)
inline fuel filter (to keep it nice and clean)
1 what cams do you think i should use for economy,reliability and power ?
2 would i need to change the jets in the carbie ?
thanks again looking forwed to your replies
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As far as I know red and blue cranks are the same in V8's, only 6cyl's are different. If you are rebuilding best bet is use an early block (HT-HJ) to avoid any pollution equipment requirements, you'll need new pistons so it doesn't matter that HX-HZ are a bit higher compression, just use whatecer pistons you want.
Only hassle I can see with the other bits is the blue 253 Quadrajet, they are designed only for cable throttle. If you wee gwtting one rebuilt, Hume Perfromance or someone like that should be able to use an early throttle shaft and operater on it so you could keep the HG rod style linkage.
Also don't machine out the manifold into one hole, normally they make 2 x holes (like L34) so it remains as a dual plane manifold. |
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