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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
On a Brougham, there is a much wider filler panel between the rear screen & boot lid, not present on this Monaro.
Dr Terry
I agree with both of you on that but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Rather than fitting a wider filler panel between rear window and boot lid you could make the boot lid physically longer too. Have a close look at the size of the boot lid. Is it stock size?? So I did some searching on Fat 68 and yes this is indeed the same car here is a side view of it showing that it is indeed longer than a stock Monaro: http://www.flickr.com/ph...7971019/in/photostream/
Jim... |
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I can't see it.
Going to all that trouble extending a boot lid,
when a brougham has about 8 inch more panel from the back window to the boot.
If one was to cut the complete arse of a brougham and fit it to a monaro
as their is the back window problem of trying to match that up.
So why would anyone bother trying to extend the boot lid.
The big arse was the problem with the brougham that people did not like back in the day, not the tail lights.
Why was it that holden did not extend the wheelbase ? is it because they had the chev and pontiac up to 1968 and thought they would lead that market wuth them cars but we see that the fairlane sold so well when you look at the big yankee LTD sales competing with the 1967 ZA fairlane on. ford gives up making the LTD galixie and fully imports them from 1969 and holden does not go down that path and gives up on the yanky products. and looks to making a HQ statesman.
valiant still make the big phoenix up to 1973.
So when i look at the so called perfect car i can't say one but more like what year was the best of each year model.
Maybe we could start a argument based on year models and see if we can get some enthusiast wound up in that debate.
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I can't see that Monaro looking any longer than a stocker.
I don't believe the Brougham didn't sell simply because it had a 'huge arse'.
I think the Brougham's failure was due to several factors, but the most notable was that it had no more interior space because the wheelbase wasn't extended (as was the Fairlane) & that it looked so much like the Premier. All you were getting was an optioned-up Premier with a longer boot. Prospective buyers could see it too.
Have a look how different the ZA/ZB Fairlane was compared to the equivalent (XR/XT) Fairmont. Ford had it both ways, the Fairlane was selling well, plus they still assembled the big Galaxie up until 72/73 when it was replaced by the local P5 LTD, which was a Fairlane stretched even further.
It wasn't until the HQ Statesman that Holden had a good weapon to go up the Fairlane, by which time it had built a good reputation. It took until the HZ era before the Statesman started to outsell the Ford.
Dr Terry
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I remember reading the article back in 2006 and they specifically mentioned that he had lenghtened the car to be the same length as a Brougham just in the interests of "customisation" |
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Fully agree with Terry.
It is a bit off topic for this thread but Ford got it right for many years. For all of that time Holden was playing catch up and eventually they got it right. So for many years we had two bands offering fantastic cars for the top of their markets. Ford offered more variety over those years with models like the all Aussie LTD (have to include the Landau) as well as Fairlanes. I fondly remember the HZ Statesman Caprice. The GM at Australian Hydraulics had one and I was the pimply eighteen year old who had to drive it to the carwash at Parramatta every Friday morning. It was a fantastic drive....I wonder if he ever noticed the extra tyre wear and the extra Friday morning fuel consumption.....
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Well i think the big arse brougham thing was something manly inspired by yanks.
Us Aussies used terminology like six axe handles across the arse etc. So it did not go down well, my Dad had a 1971 LTD Galaxie and a lot of my schoolmates parents had fairlanes and i remember we all bagged the hell out of the broughams at the time. Political Correctness was not an issue at the time, praise the lord !!
This brings me the question of why do we love this old type of cars so much ?
I don't like the FX to EJ that much at all and like mainly only XR ZA on. Valiants SV1 to AP6 were a better car than holden or fords at the time.
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I think the cars you like now are the ones you grew up with at the most influential & happy times of your youth. 60s muscle cars & baby boomers are the perfect example of this. Likewise I'm an 80s fan.... |
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Guess which of these cars, Holden Brougham/Premier or Ford Fairlane ZA/ZD had more total interior space when measured back around 1970? Read this in a 1970's motoring mag. |
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I grew up in the 80's, year 12 NSW in 1985. But the best stuff was the late 60's and early 70's. GMH didn't really build anything much good after around 1980 that excited me. Admittedly HDT did some great cars but the run of the mill Holden products were pretty lame compared to a decade earlier. Ford stopped building good cars in my eyes when the XA finished. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
I grew up in the 80's, year 12 NSW in 1985. But the best stuff was the late 60's and early 70's. GMH didn't really build anything much good after around 1980 that excited me. Admittedly HDT did some great cars but the run of the mill Holden products were pretty lame compared to a decade earlier. Ford stopped building good cars in my eyes when the XA finished.
My year 12 was in 1970, so my first jobs involved these cars & we all thought back then that the XA was a letdown after the XR-XY Falcons (I'm talking run of the mill cars here). The XB was a slight improvement on the XA however. Same with the Fairlanes. ZF/ZG weren't a patch on the ZA-ZB lot. I disagree with the 80s Holdens, I'm a big fan of SL/Es especially the VH 5.0 Shadowtone. The HJ/HX era was very boring, even though they were solid cars. Dr Terry |
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HK Panel Van. Warrigal Black, 307 with 4 barrel Rochester, twin exhaust, Saginaw 4 speed console shift, Salisbury 10 bolt LSD. Goya Red interior, carpet, full instrumentation, 6" rims with D70 Red walls and sports caps.
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quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
HK Panel Van. Warrigal Black, 307 with 4 barrel Rochester, twin exhaust, Saginaw 4 speed console shift, Salisbury 10 bolt LSD. Goya Red interior, carpet, full instrumentation, 6" rims with D70 Red walls and sports caps.
+1 but with 327. Or an HQ 350 panel van or ute to full avaiable specifications ... or an HQ 350 coupe with a decent spec 350 and an RTS-spec chassis. I clearly remember as a kid - Year 12 '91, this would have been very early 80s, a ZJ - a mate's father telling me he bought Fairlanes as he's always thought a Statesman just looked like a normal Holden with a long boot. We were more of a secondhand Kingswood family at this stage so I remember thinking his car was the height of luxury! plus all that leg room in the back. First car I really remember was an XB Fairmont V8 company car my father drove, followed by an HQ - never owned an XB but always loved them and I've owned more HQs than is sensible. Learned to drive in an HJ, I dont like to bag anything as there's generally always someone who loves them, but I dont find any HJ or HX interesting myself. Despite the HQs, I didn't end up Holden or Ford in the usual sense. Love XD and XE ESPs and remember liking them more than the Commodores of the day - except SLEs which looked great to my young eyes. |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
I grew up in the 80's, year 12 NSW in 1985. But the best stuff was the late 60's and early 70's. GMH didn't really build anything much good after around 1980 that excited me. Admittedly HDT did some great cars but the run of the mill Holden products were pretty lame compared to a decade earlier. Ford stopped building good cars in my eyes when the XA finished.
My year 12 was in 1970, so my first jobs involved these cars & we all thought back then that the XA was a letdown after the XR-XY Falcons (I'm talking run of the mill cars here). The XB was a slight improvement on the XA however. Same with the Fairlanes. ZF/ZG weren't a patch on the ZA-ZB lot.
I disagree with the 80s Holdens, I'm a big fan of SL/Es especially the VH 5.0 Shadowtone. The HJ/HX era was very boring, even though they were solid cars.
Dr Terry
I'm talking about early 70's, early 80's were boring in comparison. No coupes, no 308 commercials, no sports utilities or Sandmans. The cars were boring and the mechanicals saw no real improvements from 10 years earlier. Yes they might have steered better and tyres had improved drastically but to drive a new VH SL/E 3.3 and then jump in a Cressida it was like chalk and cheese. The comparison between a VK Calais and its equivalent Cressida was even more of a gap. But go back to 1972-4 and walk into a GMH or Ford dealer and the choices in that period were awesome: LJ XU1, LH L34, GTS350 coupe or sedan, HQ Sandman or later in 1974 a HJ GTS coupe or Sandman, or over to Ford and buy an XA GT coupe or sedan. Yes you might have been there to buy a Kingswood wagon but all that exciting stuff to look at! |
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After driving on an AWD platform for a while now, I don't think you can beat it.
So I would like a Coupe4 body, no mods required here, it is damn well pretty close to perfect. Slot in the supercharged 6.2 from HSV and back it up with a 6 speed manual, and hell while we are at it, drop some 3.89 diff gears in it.
Air Con and power steer for the missus and a mountain of fun for me.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
I disagree with the 80s Holdens, I'm a big fan of SL/Es especially the VH 5.0 Shadowtone. The HJ/HX era was very boring, even though they were solid cars.
Dr Terry
Totally agree. I never got into the HQ-HZ series or the LH/LX like my mates did - I was always a Commodore fan, especially the SL/Es. Picture early 80s, "BMX Bandits" in the street with the neighbourhood kids, and the guy 2 doors down comes home with a brand new 5.0L shadowtone SL/E (Venetian/Mercury & Claret trim). He used to wash it on the weekends and we'd pester him for a look at he trip computer - hell, the TV ad didn't show much, and Pac-man was the extent of our computer knowledge! He always obliged, and I remember saying "one day I'll own one of these" which got a sneering response of "you're dreaming" from the other guys. Proved them wrong some 12 years later.... It had 16" machined finish alloy rims on it (I think they were Enkei?) That was my youth hero car, and it took me another 10 years before I understood the significance of the chrome air cleaner lid, and those 3 letters - ADP. Wish I could find that car today. |
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Mick
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LIKE most people, it would have to be a 4cl HB torana
that classic metal right there,
hahah
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There is a HB towards the top of my Holden list but it unfortunately never wore a Holden badge.
Vauxhall made a HB Viva GT and fitted it with a midly warmed over 2 litre slant 4. It went like stink. Holden probably avoided it because it would have made the upcoming 2600S powered LC GTR look slow. |
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Have to agree about the early commodores. I had a 308 auto VC SLE in the 80's. totally stock excepted lowered springs and gas shocks, it was a great car, so much so i kept it for over 10 year. Handled well, performed well and had all the bells and whistles. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
I grew up in the 80's, year 12 NSW in 1985. But the best stuff was the late 60's and early 70's. GMH didn't really build anything much good after around 1980 that excited me. Admittedly HDT did some great cars but the run of the mill Holden products were pretty lame compared to a decade earlier. Ford stopped building good cars in my eyes when the XA finished.
My year 12 was in 1970, so my first jobs involved these cars & we all thought back then that the XA was a letdown after the XR-XY Falcons (I'm talking run of the mill cars here). The XB was a slight improvement on the XA however. Same with the Fairlanes. ZF/ZG weren't a patch on the ZA-ZB lot.
I disagree with the 80s Holdens, I'm a big fan of SL/Es especially the VH 5.0 Shadowtone. The HJ/HX era was very boring, even though they were solid cars.
Dr Terry
I'm talking about early 70's, early 80's were boring in comparison. No coupes, no 308 commercials, no sports utilities or Sandmans. The cars were boring and the mechanicals saw no real improvements from 10 years earlier. Yes they might have steered better and tyres had improved drastically but to drive a new VH SL/E 3.3 and then jump in a Cressida it was like chalk and cheese. The comparison between a VK Calais and its equivalent Cressida was even more of a gap. But go back to 1972-4 and walk into a GMH or Ford dealer and the choices in that period were awesome: LJ XU1, LH L34, GTS350 coupe or sedan, HQ Sandman or later in 1974 a HJ GTS coupe or Sandman, or over to Ford and buy an XA GT coupe or sedan. Yes you might have been there to buy a Kingswood wagon but all that exciting stuff to look at!
HZ was the best thing ever RTS and if you did know what you were doing you had a fast good handling car all you need do was go for a good cam in a 5.0L and you would never look back then their was the V8 VB commodore the best handling of the lot they were magic to drive flat out at 10 10ths you could not put a foot wrong but they were a little floaty over 200 KM/H and they had no brakes even with 4 wheel disk. a mate got a Brock VC 4sp and still has it but it was gutless. the VH-VK Grp 3 and the blue VK SS Grp A with the red motor were ok if you had the money at the time. VN to VP 5.0L were ok but no brakes and rubbish handling. VR to VS better. VT-X 5.7L gutless down low but VY a lot better VZ 5.7L did not go any better that the VY. 6.OL better down low. VE Ugly cheap interiour. The best car i have had is the VY SS ute, she is perfect for me.
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I had one of those I ordered new, white with black leather. Useless as a ute or a tow car though hence why I sold it pretty quickly. |
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