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I had heard that VF sales are up 25% since the shut down came out , it is believed some special models may go up in value when they stop.
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WB commercials went up because there was not much alternative that Holden offered and they were popular. They also increased in value for a few years. The same cant be said for the WB Statesman.
Monaro, one tonner, crewman were all popular at the time.
I don't see a commodore sedan has the same appeal. Hence Holden being in this situation to start with. If they kept building desirable work horses and attention grabbing Monaros and dropped the big sedan for a sporty mid sized car then they may have had a better brand position in the market place.
I think it unlikely that there will be any rush for the commodore in two years time.
A hero limited release or two over the next couple of years may shift some cars. Ala LE Monaro.
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People might rush as its the last chance. A good example would be V8s in the early 80s. Ford was not selling very many and had what they beleived was 2 years worth of contracts at current sales rate, they announced that once these were completed there would be no more, they sold them all in 6 months. They did not bring it back until the 90s. Statesman did not sell well anyway, compared to Fairlane. But when they stop making large cars the only way to get one will be second hand. Once agian people need to look back at what made the XE the top seller, Holden stop producing large cars. There is huge demand in the second hand market, I can see VF Commodores holding their value for many years. And BTW the only popular Monaro was the HK at 15000 sales in 12 months. They sold that many V2 and VZ locally in 4 years in a market 3 times the size. (sales equiv would have been 90000, 15000 x 3 years x 2 times the market) So from your statement V2 and VZ Monaros would not be wanted by second hand car dealers Warren Edited by user Saturday, 21 December 2013 12:15:20 AM(UTC)
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Um falcons and commodores are not all that popular now. They were in 1979. This is the problem Holden faced with the commodore. People are buying soft roaders and larger 4wd vehicles. Edited by user Saturday, 21 December 2013 3:38:16 AM(UTC)
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I agree the Falcon and Commodore are not selling as well asthey should. The question is will this effect the resale?
I think you will find that history has shown that even things that are not selling well can become quick sellers when people realise they cannot buy one. So lets say you have a growing family in 2016 and think in a few years time I shall buy a bigger car, knowing they will not exist you bite the bullet and get one now. This happened with the V8 XE Falcon and the CV8Z tp name just two. I am sure there were many buying tonners when they found Holden were not going to make them in the VE.
As for resale, once agin if there are no big cars on the market new then if you want one you need to go second hand. I think you will find the demand there already on secondhand VEs, so I think the depreceation on a VF will be low at first.
Warren
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Check the comments Holden are getting on their Facebook page. Not too much love out there from the general public I am afraid.
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quote:
Originally posted by Warren Turnbull
People might rush as its the last chance.
Warren
My missus said to me the other day that she wants to buy a VF before they disappear. It is not something that I ever expected her to say. I agree Warren, people will buy these things up before the closure and then keep them for longer than they possibly would if Holden were still making them, Just because they want a full sized rear wheel drive Australian built car. I also think they will hold firm in the second hand market as well.
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Got to agree with wbute here. I went on Holden's Facebook page only to see the front of a Commodore with the slogan 'Here to stay' written across it.
That's what all the fuss is about. They have just announced that they are NOT here to stay. I found that kind of insulting. Holden have been peddling the 'Australian car' line for generations, and now they expect us to be totally fine with the next one being made in China?
As for buying a VF, I am not convinced that worker moral will not be affected in a condemned factory.
Maybe this will not make a difference to quality but maybe it will. I'm not sure I want to buy one to find out though. Good luck to those of you who thinking of buying.
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Made in China is still mere speculation, fuelled mainly by the media.
It's far more likely that Australia's next Holdens will come from Korea, like most of the current Holden imports do. |
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I'm with Mick. There is way too much hysteria out there.
They ARE here to say, they will just import all of their cars now as all other car makers already do. Why are Holden being singled out here. The buying public are more that happy to embrace an imported Korean Hyundai or an imported Japanese Mazda, so why not an imported Holden, as many are now.
Nobody except the media has said anything about a Chinese Holden.
While we don't know what the future holds, the next Holden could be sourced from any number of countries, even the USA.
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
Um falcons and commodores are not all that popular now. They were in 1979. This is the problem Holden faced with the commodore. People are buying soft roaders and larger 4wd vehicles.
1979 ?? They have had many ups & downs since those days. The Commodore was still very popular & by far the best selling car on the market up until 4 or 5 years ago. Have a look at VT/VX sales around the year 2000. It was Commodore 1st, Falcon 2nd & daylight 3rd. The Commodore still is no. 1 today, if you combine ute & Caprice sales with regular Commodores. But good things don't last forever. There have been many factors in the sales slide. Fuel prices are one factor, making sub-2litre cars top sellers, increased SUV sales is another. Probably the biggest single reason is Govt departments are no longer required to buy Australian & also the increase in novated leases. The fleet car parks are no longer full of Holden, Falcons, Camrys etc. etc. Dr Terry |
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Oh come on. Government fleet cars don't count. They have to be removed from total sales figures. That is just a further subsidy to Holden. The same as Honda counting Postie bikes as the biggest selling motorbike.
I am afraid SUV had become the new Commodore/Falcon. I can see why too. Better visibility. Acceptable fuel economy. Easier entry and exit due to being higher.
There is already a big backlash against Holden and stupid catch phrases like "perfect storm" and "we are here to stay" don't help. Holden are the only brand name that originated in Australia that has been mass produced and that is where the brand loyalty has come from. No many people change football teams when their favourite player changes teams. Neither will the buying public remain loyal to the brand. Holden now has to face the market on an even playing field. They have to sell cars people want as there will be no soft sales to the die hard fans any more. Brock fans etc will not buy a Holden Cruze just because it has a lion on the bonnet.
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
Oh come on. Government fleet cars don't count. They have to be removed from total sales figures. That is just a further subsidy to Holden. The same as Honda counting Postie bikes as the biggest selling motorbike.
So we shouldn't count the Corolla as the top seller because it's the health dept's most popular vehicle ? We shouldn't allow Hi-Lux sales to be included because most go to the mines ? Numbers are numbers & they don't lie. Private fleets are larger than govt. fleets anyway & that's where novated leases come in also. On another topic. It would be nice to go back in time about 20 years & make 3 simple changes. 1. Keep unions in check & make sure that factory workers got reasonable wages & conditions, in line with the rest of the population. 2. Make it a binding rule, that all levels of government (where ever tax payer's money was being spent) they must purchase an Australian made car, where there is a choice. 3. When we import vehicles from any country we apply the same duty or tariff that they would apply if we exported a car that same country. We would still have a vibrant car industry today with 4 or more brands if these 3 rules were implemented. Unfortunately without the Tardis available to us this will never happen. Dr Terry |
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
I am afraid SUV had become the new Commodore/Falcon. I can see why too. Better visibility. Acceptable fuel economy. Easier entry and exit due to being higher.
These are gross generalisations. Have you ever driven a VF ? The only SUVs that get better fuel economy than the current Commodore are the 4-cyl ones. Some of those have trouble going uphill with a full passenger load. Many 6-cyl & V8 SUVs are seriously thirsty. Easier entry & exit doesn't apply to all of the 'toy' SUVs on the market either. I'm a bit bigger than average & I physically can't even get into the front seat of a Forester, CRV or X-Trail. A Pajero or Landcruiser maybe, but they still provide nothing approaching the comfort & space of my Calais or Statesman. The better visibility is a false impression created by the higher seating position. The rear 3/4 vision of many SUVs is dangerously bad. Why do they need reversing cameras ? Also with so many driving around traffic in their high seating positions, it has made vision in traffic much worse for those in regular sedans. Dr Terry |
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Yes you can look at things from 50 different ways. However a higher seating position does allow for better visibility when touring. Blind spots are there for parking. I said acceptable fuel economy, not better fuel economy. Entry into a taller car is easier than a lower car. Versatility is another factor that sells cars. Big back door. Huge cargo area with rear seats folded down. Perhaps that's a big factor to buyers now, versatility. When it all boils down, you have to meet the market, not make the market meet you. I don't wish to shoot Holden down bit in my situation they don't build a car to suit what I need. Other brands do. But if I was after a cool ute or lived in town a HSV would be fun. Edited by user Saturday, 21 December 2013 9:16:13 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
Yes you can look at things from 50 different ways. However a higher seating position does allow for better visibility when touring. Blind spots are there for parking.
I said acceptable fuel economy, not better fuel economy.
Entry into a taller car is easier than a lower car.
Versatility is another factor that sells cars. Big back door. Huge cargo area with rear seats folded down. Perhaps that's a big factor to buyers now, versatility.
When it all boils down, you have to meet the market, not make the market meet you.
I don't wish to shoot Holden down bit in my situation they don't build a car to suit what I need. Other brands do. But if I was after a cool ute or lived in town a HSV would be fun.
I agree with many of your points, but Holden's failing is NOT the Commodore. As with all of the other Aussie car manufacturers, it's high overheads. On the topic of fuel economy, many have swapped from a Commodore or Falcon to a smaller SUV to often find that their petrol usage & service costs come as a bit of a shock. The Commodore is still a good competent car, but GM need more model variants to meet the market. You mention SUVs, Holden currently have 3, the Captiva, the Colorado 7 & the Trax. The little Trax is a 'girly' town car, the Captiva (I may stand corrected on this) is currently the no. 1 or 2 top selling SUV type vehicle & has been since release. The Colorado 7 is a larger 'proper' 4WD, is relatively new & not that well known. So Holden do have a 'range' of cars, but it needs to be broader & more inline with the likes of Toyota who seem to be able to provide for just about niche on the market. Dr Terry |
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All the re-baged imports are up against other manufacturers. One major exception is Toyota. They build and sell their own cars. I know others do to but Toyota does it best. More so in the SUV and especially the 4wd and commercial market. This is one aspect that Holden could have done well to invest some development into. Hilux and Lancruiser must be a major bread winner for Toyota. Mines use thousands of these things. Then you have all the private and business sales. But Holden seem to be excluded from pursuing this market. GM must have insisted they stick to family sedans. The imports they sell just don't stack up in this category.
Yes SUV must have higher running costs. You would see this first hand I imagine Terry, but people line up to buy them.
If Holden built their own 4wd platform with a petrol V8 option I would have been first in line. I don't want a re-badged Isuzu though. I would buy one of them from Isuzu.
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They had such great ideas in the 90's. Monaro, crewman, cross 8, concept Torana, one tonner. They just threw it all away or GM strangled them to death more likely.
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the only thing left of the dandy plant..which was huge
is the general motors station.....
dont think that station will reopen
funny its still there complete....
slowly turning into a 3rd world country.....
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quote:
Originally posted by wbute
All the re-baged imports are up against other manufacturers. One major exception is Toyota. They build and sell their own cars. I know others do to but Toyota does it best.
Holden no longer do re-badges as such, all cars they sell are 100% GM vehicles. In the past decades they have sold re-badged Suzukis, Isuzus, Nissans & even Toyotas, but now they are all there own. Just because GM Korea builds a car & it is sold on other markets as a Holden, a Chevrolet or even a Buick, strictly speaking they are not re-badges they are just different badges for different countries. A lot of the design staff at GM Korea & in Detroit for that matter are ex-Holden Aussies. Another good example is an Opel/Vauxhall, they are both GM vehicles, but GM just uses the Vauxhall name on the UK market. Is a Lexus a re-badged Toyota ? No it's just an alternate badge. Is a VF Chev SS a re-badge ? No it's still a GM vehicle. The Colorado is no longer an re-badged Isuzu, like the Rodeo was. Actually it's the other way around now, GM developed the Colorado, & the Isuzu D-Max is the re-badge. Dr Terry |
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