quote:

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Originally posted by wbute
They had such great ideas in the 90's. Monaro, crewman, cross 8, concept Torana, one tonner. They just threw it all away or GM strangled them to death more likely.

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Thats right these are ideas. But as explained before the V2 Monaro was a sales disaster of monumental proportions. That is why they were exported as S and SS coupe to the middle east and as a Pontiac GTO to the US (which for Terry above have a different VIN code 6G2 for Pontiac 6G1 is Chevrolet/Holden Australia).

This was all signed off before the Monaro programme went ahead. Our market just is not big enough for Holden to produce so many variations.

When I was in SA for a dinner a few months ago, October I think, the design team were there and they said they were staying and that they were doing stuff for other GM plants. It is the manufacturing that is going to stop here.

We are all just guestimating what is going to happen here, it could swing either way.

Warren

No my point was that if no one is keen to buy a second hand commodore(you keep comparing popular models like crewman with plain Jane commodore) then dealers are going to offer nothing for them. They are worth bugger all now after three years. Commercial vehicles always hold their value better to start with. The market will most likely be suppressed due to the majority of second hand car buyers not wanting to get caught with a car that will be hard to get parts for. Just my opinion. I am looking at it from the general car buyers point of view. Not the view of people on a Holden dedicated forum.
Government fleet cars need to be left out of car sales figures. That is taking money from one hand and putting it in the other. Tax payers have bought their own cars that were subsidised by the tax payer. No new money was generated. Nothing was gained out of the transaction. We all own a share in those cars.
This forum naturally will be biased towards Holden. Have a look on a public forum like Facebook and see what the majority are saying about Holden Commodores.

Edited by user Sunday, 22 December 2013 9:42:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

. Keep unions in check & make sure that factory workers got reasonable wages & conditions, in line with the rest of the population.
2. Make it a binding rule, that all levels of government (where ever tax payer's money was being spent) they must purchase an Australian made car, where there is a choice.
3. When we import vehicles from any country we apply the same duty or tariff that they would apply if we exported a car that same country.

Dr Terry, I couldn't have put it better myself. Especially #3. That should apply across the whole range of imports & exports.

I've got a VZ wagon, 150K on it. It's worth nothing so so I might as
well run it up to 300K & flog it then. Dunno what I'll replace it
with. Maybe a VF wagon.

quote:

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Originally posted by wbute
No my point was that if no one is keen to buy a second hand commodore(you keep comparing popular models like crewman with plain Jane commodore) then dealers are going to offer nothing for them. They are worth bugger all now after three years. Commercial vehicles always hold their value better to start with. The market will most likely be suppressed due to the majority of second hand car buyers not wanting to get caught with a car that will be hard to get parts for. Just my opinion. I am looking at it from the general car buyers point of view. Not the view of people on a Holden dedicated forum.

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You've taken my comment wrongly. I mention Adventra & Crewman as examples of cars that are no longer built. Why will a VF Commodore be any different after it is replaced.

What make you think parts for VF Commodore wont be available in years to come. Holden sales, service & parts will remain.

Another good example is the Falcon wagon (especially LPG versions), these ceased production a few years ago & are very much sought after on the used car market by small businesses or families who want a larger wagon which is cheap to operate, insure & service. Ford's only alternatives were the Territory or Mondeo, neither up to the job.

The Holden situation will be totally different for example to Rover, this company no longer exists worldwide, there are no dealers & there are no parts. 2nd hand Rovers are worthless. Are you saying this will happen to Holden ?

The whole thing about Holden is they will become like all other car brands, they will just become an importer, why will that devalue used VFs ?

My belief is that if the VF replacement is not a proper-sized RWD family car, then the resale of used VEs & VFs will increase, not decrease.

Dr Terry

A HQ 6 cylinder three on the tree is the car you need to compare as investment value to a VF Commodore. Are they a good investment after 40 years?
Are you telling me Holden stock spare parts for cars for a long time? I couldn't get parts for my WB ute in 1994. That was only 10 years after it was built. The VF will be the same.
So if a VF goes up in value, good luck to it. Holden perhaps should have been targeting the second hand market all along.
You keep comparing commercial vehicles with a commodore sedan. A station wagon that can be used as a commercial vehicle is not the same as a family hack Commodore sedan. Anyway, maybe they will be revered and conveted as an icon to family travel and go up in value.

Edited by user Tuesday, 24 December 2013 12:23:35 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

quote:

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Originally posted by wbute

You keep comparing commercial vehicles with a commodore sedan. A station wagon that can be used as a commercial vehicle is not the same as a family hack Commodore sedan..

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The beauty of the RWD Commodore platform (or most Holdens for that matter) as that is NOT JUST A SEDAN. The wagon & ute (also the panel van in past years) are just as important as the base sedan, this is true of the Ford range as well.

Dr Terry

I was under the impression that the car dealers/manufacturers are obliged by law to carry parts for 10 years.
Not sure if that was all parts or just essentials.
I do know of people especially with continental cars (renault/citroen/alfa etc) having to wait weeks to get the parts.
As for parts for cars no longer made, or not on the aussie market any more, the second hand dealers are still asking good money for stuff like Daewoos, Daihatsus, Saabs, and the like.
And people are still buying them, out of ignorance or hope.

quote:

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Originally posted by johnperth
I was under the impression that the car dealers/manufacturers are obliged by law to carry parts for 10 years.
Not sure if that was all parts or just essentials.
I do know of people especially with continental cars (renault/citroen/alfa etc) having to wait weeks to get the parts.

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I've tried over the years to get to the bottom of this myth & there seems to be no substance to it at all. It might differ from state to state, but in NSW there is no such law.

It's not only the Euro cars that have parts issues, there are any number of Japanese manufacturers in the same boat. Since the GFC most importers have reduced their parts inventory substantially.

I'm in the auto parts game & often have customers ask for help, because the OEM supplier has quoted 6 or 10 weeks from Japan. There were also many parts shortages after the tsunami.

quote:

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Originally posted by johnperth

As for parts for cars no longer made, or not on the aussie market any more, the second hand dealers are still asking good money for stuff like Daewoos, Daihatsus, Saabs, and the like.
And people are still buying them, out of ignorance or hope.

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These 3 cars that you've listed vary a lot when it comes to parts:-
1. Daewoo - The name no longer exists, but the whole company was purchased by GM & parts are very easy to obtain at your local Holden dealer. He might not have them on the shelf but GM-H warehouse is well stocked.

2. Diahatsu - No longer exists in Australia, but does elsewhere. Is totally owned by Toyota. Parts are getting difficult but some are available thru Toyota dealers.

3. Saab - This company was owned by GM but was closed down & part of the remains was sold to a Chinese company. Parts are getting difficult, but are still available thru specialist importers. Not as bad as Rover.

A 2nd Hand Daewoo or Diahatsu can be good, cheap & reliable transport, depending on condition & service history, but I'm not a Saab fan.

Dr Terry

Spare parts are an economic descision. By this "how long will the parts b cost effctive to purchase".

For example Holden has an extnsive history on front and rear panels sold, they know that a VT involved in a front ended now, the panel shop shall by second hand front panels from the wreckers rather than new.

So when the last VZ ran off the line NASCO/GMPA/GM PARTS would order so any panles pressed before the dies were decommisioned. When they run out they run out. If they do their maths right they will sell a few panels off at the end that have not shiftd for 6 months, if they et it wrong there are people out there waiting for parts

VZ Monaro rear bars are NLA and were 2 years ago when I got rear ended, had to have the bar repaired rather than replaced. Now VZ Monaros are turning up in wreckers and I would have purchased a second hand one cheaper than what a new one would have been. (or should I sell the Monaro as parts are NLA)

Warren

No I bought a WB because I could fix it myself. If you went back to 1988 till about 1994 all the blokes in rural nsw who bought WB utes new were selling them, privately. They were buying Subaru Brumbys. You could sell a WB Kingswood V8 for about $12000. A new brumby cost about $14000.
They got out while the going was good. The value stated to drop in a WB from
Then onwards. Now it's popular to say the WB is spoor cousin to HQ to HZ. They forget that WB was worth three times what a HZ was. A HQ you couldn't give away. But... They had a market that was on its own. Not the same with a commodore sedan. They are just a family hack. They are a throw away car.