Funny that. The corporations run off overseas to have their product made there because of the cheaper labour costs. So like the USA now realise we are not producing anything, people out of work, no one paying taxes, Now we have a gov thats aim is to cut all the services, cut those out that are producing something, even if it was only a job. So what if we were supporting the car manufacturers, people were working and thats a lot better than standing in a line at centrelink to get a dole payment.

How do you know about Toyota? What sort of tax funding do they receive in Japan on top of what they got here?
There is a big contradiction here. Some say we should pay GM to employ workers to save jobs. Then there are some who say our workers are bludgers that have caused the problem.

Edited by user Monday, 24 February 2014 5:01:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So what is it, Toyota knows how to run a business or they don't?

You seem to know.

Car companies are like anyone else. Get a hand out and you come to expect it. It is a double edged sword. You could nearly guarantee that most of the hand out money goes to job creation in offices for people who really achieve nothing.
As for Toyota I would imagine that they are no better off than any other company. They are chasing cheaper wages as well.

quote:

---

Originally posted by castellan
I don't think it's the companies that are badly run at all.

It's all the crap that they have to deal with in a 3rd rate nation like ours full of idiots backing some of the idiot union rubbish and all the govenment bulls*** red tape etc we have.

If a company did not have unions they would do a lot better just like in Asia. but that does not make me anti union as i would support good unions that work with an eye to helping the companys like they do in germany etc and not just some stupid slob dictating wind bag s*** for brains that is so one eyed that they destroy the companies with their commo rantings. and with their us vs them moron mentality and the stupid wage earner is such a goose that the unions can run loose spinning any s*** they want and all just follow along.
A big union fan mate of mine found out what happens if you question the unions, he said he would never do that again, but he did have some workers come up and say good on ya, you are right but they live in fear of the moronic thugs, we have had dickheads like this running the show for years all supported by the ALP who do support the biggest bludgers and useless incompetent idiots full on.

I said to one of these ALP clowns if i came to work on you house and just did f all biding my time at your expense and did a s*** job would you pay me ? no way he said ! well why do you support such idiots full on in companies, you the consumer pays in the end or you then have to buy from Asia and end up destroying our nation down the track.

---

I totally agree. Unions should stick to what they used to do, ie look after the wages, welfare and safety of their members in no particular order. I really do think some Unions have become too big/fat, too powerful and too lazy, just like some companies did and when the global market opened up they soon realised their mistakes and either fixed them or fell over.
Also agree, when you listen to some of the BS that comes out of some union members mouths, you'd NEVER want to run a company with people employed who were part of a union. I also know some very competent, intelligent, hard working people who are members of their industry union and benefit from it, as does the company they work for. Has to be a balance somewhere, not sure what it is.

And they represent about 20% or less of the workforce.

quote:

---

Originally posted by castellan
I think it's all about a fair suck of the sav.
Not clowns or idiots having their way.
The politically correct crowd today are the biggest morons of all, just a bunch of new age nazis with s*** for brains, have you ever tried to talk to them lot, boy o boy they will destroy our freedoms and all, the little dictating filthy grubs. i would like to see an idiot like that run their own company. the pricks live in a fantasy bubble not the real world. hate hate hate double hate, loath entirely !

---

That's a harsh way to talk about the Greens.

True, but harsh.

Dr Terry.

Sorry John, but that view is just like the Aussies try to justify buying bottom-end Euro-trash by saying Fords & Holdens are still built like crap, or that Jap cars are no good in Australia because their dashboards only last 12 months before warping & cracking in the Aussie sun.

Fast forward 20-30 years to what we have today, and it's a very different world in vehicle assembly.

Manufacturers have made massive gains in quality through CIP & QA. The criteria that Toyota use to measure the quality of a vehicle is so critical, that the measurements taken are beyond what the human eye can see. Their Kentucky plant continually rates above Australian & even Japanese assembly - but we're talking 99.997% vs 99.995% - you would not be able to pick which car was made where, and to a human, they look identically good.

BMW built a massive plant in South Carolina. Their quality regime is identical to that used in their plants in Europe, and it is continually monitored & recorded. The reliability of the cars produced there is just as good as their Euro siblings.

It's this out-dated and inaccurate view of vehicle assembly, that a lot of ordinary Australian's still share, purely through ignorance, that helped destroy our local industry. One factor in the "Perfect Storm" as Holden put it.

One of my work colleagues, who actually looks after accounts for 2 of our local car manufacturers, told me they plan to buy a new Corolla in 2017, just before Toyota close, as she'll never get another one after they leave Australia. That's the sort of misinformation & hype that is being spread by the media (and in particular social media), that ordinary Australians are interpreting & believing.

suzuki only pulled out a couple of years ago not 20 or 30.
the wrangler had a rep of catching fire and leaking roof.
ford explorers have not enjoyed a great reputation here.
i am not saying the us can't built quality cars, just that in general they don't because they look only at the bottom line.

i do note most manufacturers, if not all, have built a dud in their time, and i love yank cars, but i am looking at the overall industry.
as for the unions i would point out the unions created the labor party so any claim that unions should not be involved in politics is a bit naive.
i could use the same reasoning to say business/industry should not be involved in politics as well. how does that sit with some?
i would go further and say that without the unions not one of you would have the standard of living you have now, employers are pushing for lower wages and conditions, without indusrtrial laws what do you think you be earning now?
remember a lot of top management wages are related to the general wages cost, a lower wage to the worker means a lower wage to management as relationships change.
to say the unions can't represent a variety of views is like saying your local member of parliament or shire councillor can't represent his electorate because there will be a variety of views in the electrorate.
in general i am a strong believer in unions even though some like the cfmeu have a reputation for thuggery but that could be fixed if government got serious. unions or the threat of them is the only thing that got decent working conditions. by threat i don't mean the thuggery or standover tactics i mean the fear of employers that workers would get organised. that is the only reason individual workplace agreements work to some extent.
i would go further and say that if you are not in a union you are not entitled to any improvement in wages or conditions the unions gain, why should you benefit from the investment by members in costly negotiations? i have no problem with concientious objectors but on the other hand if your beliefs won't allow you to be in a union it should also stop you accepting other people's hard fought for benefits, equal opportunity works both ways.

The yanks build and designed a lot of Honda dirt bikes and four wheelers. They are all good.
These car companies have all left for a variety of reasons. Perhaps if we actually had an Australian car company it might have been worth sinking our own money into it.
Unions serve a purpose but they too need to be controlled.