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sgo Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 3:49:35 AM(UTC)
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I'm just wondering what mods were allowed under race rules for Ht gts 350's that raced at Bathurst?
Or as production class cars were they raced in the form as any restored car would be to-day?
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 4:04:35 AM(UTC)
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Depends whose "rules" you were using. Remember old Harry wasn't called the "fox" for no reason. There was good reasons for old Harry not protesting against the 3rd place car's lap count, like he did in 1967. He probably didn't want the cars scrutinised too much.

You were supposed to run them as delivered although there were some mods allowed, there were special tyres run in 1969. Henk Woelder's car had special rubber on it. You could rebuild the engines to manufacturer's tolerances. Plus other stuff. Others here will have a far better idea than me!
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Premier 350 Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 5:55:42 AM(UTC)
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I remember reading that one driver wasn't allowed to bend the accelerator pedal to get a better heel & toe action.

They were really pedantic in the 'olden days'
Attn camry drivers. The accelerator is the skinny pedal on the right.
gm5735 Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 6:18:46 AM(UTC)
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If you get the opportunity, and assuming it hasn't been altered when restored have a look at Spencer Martin's car from Sandown - KNK777. It's the one that crashed through the Armco and caught fire. The upper control arm pivot shaft mounting holes have been redrilled to alter the front suspension camber curves, and I'm told all the team cars were like that.
No flies on Harry.
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 6:33:54 AM(UTC)
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They did modify HT not long after release to move the upper control arm mounting points. Earlier ones were the same as HK. Maybe they were allowed to emulate this?
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gm5735 Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 6:51:01 AM(UTC)
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Maybe, although the man himself told me it was naughty. As were some special master cylinders done on Sunday overtime at the GMH Dandenong machine shop after the above mentioned Sandown incident.
Premier 350 Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 8:18:53 AM(UTC)
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I assume they lowered the upper control arm for more neg camber?
Attn camry drivers. The accelerator is the skinny pedal on the right.
gm5735 Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 8:24:59 AM(UTC)
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Correct. Specifically more negative in bump.
castellan Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 8:28:28 AM(UTC)
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From what I am led to believe is that with the GT-HO Phase 2 and P3 is that both cams are 40/80 300 duration the P2 is the higher lift and the P3 is lower one and the Bathurst race cars could run a higher lift cam than both of them but it is still a 40/80 300 duration cam as some did or did not use this higher lift cam in racing.

As for the HT GTS Monaro they used a P/N 186 head for Bathurst but you could never get a 186 head if you bought it from the factory and if you wanted the 186 you had to fork out for it and get it fitted as it was a dealer fitted option as well as a bigger cam.
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 5:36:45 PM(UTC)
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The 186 cast heads were offered to owners at a price when the "free" HT upgrades were made (holes in radiator support, aircleaner plus other tweaks).
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castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 16 August 2014 9:03:20 PM(UTC)
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In AMC issue 46 page 40 we see in the addendum we see a 603 head cancelled.
What is this head and why was it cancelled, was there going to be a higher spec engine ?
The race HT was only rev to 4500 at Bathurst bar down the straight, so the bigger cam and heads were not needed as a formula in that year as tyres brakes and so on would of been all worked out.

I am of interested to know what the so called Bathurst cam was that you could of got with the 186 head package. they must of used this cam for Bathurst I would think it a little bit bigger then the std one.
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 5:35:39 AM(UTC)
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There is anothe rcamshaft, I think the specs are in Fiv's book.
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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:25:31 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
From what I am led to believe is that with the GT-HO Phase 2 and P3 is that both cams are 40/80 300 duration the P2 is the higher lift and the P3 is lower one and the Bathurst race cars could run a higher lift cam than both of them but it is still a 40/80 300 duration cam as some did or did not use this higher lift cam in racing.

As for the HT GTS Monaro they used a P/N 186 head for Bathurst but you could never get a 186 head if you bought it from the factory and if you wanted the 186 you had to fork out for it and get it fitted as it was a dealer fitted option as well as a bigger cam.

no matter what head or whatever negative rubbish on the top arm, even 10 of the above mentioned HT GTS 350 coupes don't even come anywhere near one GTHO, even if the HO had 2 plug leads off.
take a ride in one, you will not even look at a 81837 car again
castellan Offline
#14 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:48:39 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
There is anothe rcamshaft, I think the specs are in Fiv's book.
Fiv book I have is only to do with the GTR XU-1. and the last Bathurst special cam in 1973 is the same one as the 1972.
gm5735 Offline
#15 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 9:47:38 AM(UTC)
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Really? 81837 was designed to win Bathurst, I thought. Ran in 1968 and won it, ran in 1969 and won it. I'd say it was a successful design. The GTHO arrived 18 months later and cost 40% more, so you'd kind of hope it was a bit better, wouldn't you?
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 5:27:26 PM(UTC)
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AFAIK one of the HDT HT GTS350's was the fastest GTS and ran the fastest lap in 1969 (Brock and West). On the street I think Frank is pretty right though for HO II and III being a quicker car, and at Bathurst they had racing rubber so you'd expect them to lap faster on this alone. On paper for road tests of the day they are very close though. I still wouldn't have a HO though as they are not a coupe.
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HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 7:49:33 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by castellan
quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
There is anothe rcamshaft, I think the specs are in Fiv's book.
Fiv book I have is only to do with the GTR XU-1. and the last Bathurst special cam in 1973 is the same one as the 1972.


I think there is another cam, will see if I can find it.
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castellan Offline
#18 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:16:07 PM(UTC)
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The LJ Bathurst cam is P/N 9929247
In 55/91 lift 0.456with ramps 88/124
Ex 94/51 with ramps 127/84 if you are keen on ramps.
castellan Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:29:00 PM(UTC)
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What I am after is the so called HT GTS 350 Bathurst cam option, what it was.
From what we are led to believe the HT GTS 350 Monaro is one thing and the so called Bathurst HT Monaro ? this car has the 186 heads a bit bigger cam air cleaner mods, diff ratios and a 12 bolt diff. now this is not your std 350 Monaro your Joh average bought.
Now as I take it Joe average got the option after he bought the car new to go the engine options through a Holden dealer.
gm5735 Offline
#20 Posted : Sunday, 17 August 2014 8:30:57 PM(UTC)
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True enough. I've only ever driven a PhaseII, so can only comment on that. I'd say definitely quicker in a straight line, does not handle as well as my HT81837, but does have better brakes. I try to avoid the whole rabid "this one's better than that one" idiocy and appreciate both for what they are - an incredible legacy from a period in Australian car manufacturing, the likes of which we will never see again.
That, and I can't afford a GTHO, and I do like coupes!

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