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VC SLE SHADOW TONE PROTOTYPE
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 13 October 2014 7:23:46 AM(UTC)
1997 HRT GTS PILOT

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Can anyone help with information about a vehicle i just bought?

Here are the details and what I've been told so far.

The car is a Prototype for the VC Holden SLE.
It was the long lead press car and car used for brochure and dealer showing.
Car is factory Tuxedo black over Aztec silver and has never been repainted.
Has factory prototype VC grill, taillights, stainless trim fitted as well as headlight wipers, rear head rests etc etc and many other VC carectoristics.

Plates read:

VB Commodore sedan 5th month 1979 on compliance.

Model: VB8VX
Trim: 1484-11Y
Paint: 567-30851
Top: 568-30861
Eng: L36 Trans: M40 Axel: GU7

The whole interior and exterior is as a VC but the tag says VB and it came from GMH as described here.

Could or would GMH use a VB as a base for their VC prototypes?
This shadow tone VC car was built 10 months before the VC release.

Any ideas or thoughts on this car would be welcomed.

Edited by user Friday, 19 December 2014 10:21:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 13 October 2014 10:04:38 AM(UTC)
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Any documentation to confirm this? What does the owner's manual have in it (if there is one).
It's going to be really hard to prove it's history unless you have something concrete.
How do you know the VC grille is a prototype?

With the interchangeability of early Commodore parts, there's nothing stopping someone from putting all the VC gear into a VB. Date codes on certain parts would be the giveaway though - have you found any?

Tags wise, it certainly is rare - the 1484 combo code wasn't available until VC, and you have a VB tag with the combo number on it. Had you not had this tag with VB and the VC combo on it, then it would point to a far more common early commodore scenario - a rebirth using another car's chassis number & compliance plate (I've seen many a VB-VH with mismatched plates on them - eg a body ID from one model, and a compliance from another), but the important numbers are all on the one tag. Is the tag natural finish or painted black?

I know quite a lot of the quirks between them as I've owned heaps over the years. For about 12 years I had an 8/80 one in the same combo as that (with the 11Y trim, full electrics & rear headrests).

Not to say they couldn't have run a VB down the line in the same colour combo - after all, those paint colours were on the charts in '79, just not advertised or offered in that combo.

Is absolutely everything inside it VC SL/E? eg the instrument facia should be brushed black (not woodgrain), single spoke steering wheel, highrise console etc. The trim facings, door trims & headlining should be the later style plush velour (same grain as VH-VL) with the crystalline appearance, not the crushed velour of the VB (that can look a bit creased, and is flatter in the pile).

Does it have VB or VC type bar rubbers & over-riders? When you say stainless, are you talking about the front & rear screen moulds (which the VB didn't get)? How are the side rubbing strips attached? Are they the thin VC ones or the thicker VB ones? Where are the side badges located?

To rule out the chance that someone could have added all these VC bits to a rare VB, I'd be looking at the items that are much tougher to cover up - how the rear headrest brackets are attached (as VB didn't have them), how the rear bracket for the centre console is attached to the floor (again, introduced on VC) and the central locking relay wiring (minor variances in them). Does it have cruise control?

Seems awfully early for a marketing/press prototype, but it could well have been built for a colour clinic, to seek feedback on the combo - but it wouldn't have needed to be a VC for that task.
Cheers,

Mick
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SLENUT Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 13 October 2014 8:08:56 PM(UTC)
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I asked around at some older Holden peeps Mick, they say its a test on the exterior for VC SL/E shadow tone scheme. This one was on ebay. By the pics, the door trims are normal vinyl VB SL/E ones. Has the burl walnut dash as per VB SL/E. I reckon someone has but the VC SL/E items in it, the grill, tailights etc.

Edited by user Monday, 13 October 2014 8:12:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The Commodore SL/E fanatic.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 13 October 2014 10:36:45 PM(UTC)
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G'day Mick, the car is factory fitted VC items.
Will go over your points tonight when I get home and let you know.
It has all the VC trim around windscreen etc and i believe its all Ex GMH fitted.
The car has never been touched or apart, its bog stock standard original.
Not sure on dash or trims but will check and post.
Either way, Holden may have still used a VB dash and trim at that stage, as you say, its quite early. Then again 10 months isn't really that early before a release date.
Ive got the 1997 HSV VT GTS Prototype and that was assembled in June 1997 snd release was October for HSV.
5 months prior it was built.
Are you in Melbourne Mick? Happy for you to look at the car.

Cheers, Damo.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 13 October 2014 10:50:40 PM(UTC)
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The one large tag with all the combo numbers on it is painted black Mick.
Yhe long skinny tag is natural finish as is the compliance plate.
Cheers.
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commodorenut Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 7:06:39 AM(UTC)
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Hi Damo,
I'm in Sydney, but I do get down to Melbourne quite often.
I'll actually be down there at the end of this month.
Send me a quick message as to what region you're based in, and I'll see if I can arrange to meet up.
Cheers,
Mick
Cheers,

Mick
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 8:01:43 PM(UTC)
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Hi Mick im in Deer Park.
Would be great if you could check the car out.
Its got adjustable rear headrests also, buttons inside the actual headrest.
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SLENUT Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:02:45 PM(UTC)
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I don't take it to kindly on what you said on just commodore forums to me either.
The Commodore SL/E fanatic.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:35:43 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by commodorenut
Any documentation to confirm this? What does the owner's manual have in it (if there is one).
It's going to be really hard to prove it's history unless you have something concrete.
How do you know the VC grille is a prototype?

With the interchangeability of early Commodore parts, there's nothing stopping someone from putting all the VC gear into a VB. Date codes on certain parts would be the giveaway though - have you found any?

Tags wise, it certainly is rare - the 1484 combo code wasn't available until VC, and you have a VB tag with the combo number on it. Had you not had this tag with VB and the VC combo on it, then it would point to a far more common early commodore scenario - a rebirth using another car's chassis number & compliance plate (I've seen many a VB-VH with mismatched plates on them - eg a body ID from one model, and a compliance from another), but the important numbers are all on the one tag. Is the tag natural finish or painted black?

I know quite a lot of the quirks between them as I've owned heaps over the years. For about 12 years I had an 8/80 one in the same combo as that (with the 11Y trim, full electrics & rear headrests).

Not to say they couldn't have run a VB down the line in the same colour combo - after all, those paint colours were on the charts in '79, just not advertised or offered in that combo.

Is absolutely everything inside it VC SL/E? eg the instrument facia should be brushed black (not woodgrain), single spoke steering wheel, highrise console etc. The trim facings, door trims & headlining should be the later style plush velour (same grain as VH-VL) with the crystalline appearance, not the crushed velour of the VB (that can look a bit creased, and is flatter in the pile).

Does it have VB or VC type bar rubbers & over-riders? When you say stainless, are you talking about the front & rear screen moulds (which the VB didn't get)? How are the side rubbing strips attached? Are they the thin VC ones or the thicker VB ones? Where are the side badges located?

To rule out the chance that someone could have added all these VC bits to a rare VB, I'd be looking at the items that are much tougher to cover up - how the rear headrest brackets are attached (as VB didn't have them), how the rear bracket for the centre console is attached to the floor (again, introduced on VC) and the central locking relay wiring (minor variances in them). Does it have cruise control?

Seems awfully early for a marketing/press prototype, but it could well have been built for a colour clinic, to seek feedback on the combo - but it wouldn't have needed to be a VC for that task.


I just pulled the VC grill out if it and it has written on the bottom in faint chalked immage: X/2
There are no part numbers anywhere on it.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:37:19 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by 1997 HRT GTS PILOT
quote:
Originally posted by commodorenut
Any documentation to confirm this? What does the owner's manual have in it (if there is one).
It's going to be really hard to prove it's history unless you have something concrete.
How do you know the VC grille is a prototype?

With the interchangeability of early Commodore parts, there's nothing stopping someone from putting all the VC gear into a VB. Date codes on certain parts would be the giveaway though - have you found any?

Tags wise, it certainly is rare - the 1484 combo code wasn't available until VC, and you have a VB tag with the combo number on it. Had you not had this tag with VB and the VC combo on it, then it would point to a far more common early commodore scenario - a rebirth using another car's chassis number & compliance plate (I've seen many a VB-VH with mismatched plates on them - eg a body ID from one model, and a compliance from another), but the important numbers are all on the one tag. Is the tag natural finish or painted black?

I know quite a lot of the quirks between them as I've owned heaps over the years. For about 12 years I had an 8/80 one in the same combo as that (with the 11Y trim, full electrics & rear headrests).

Not to say they couldn't have run a VB down the line in the same colour combo - after all, those paint colours were on the charts in '79, just not advertised or offered in that combo.

Is absolutely everything inside it VC SL/E? eg the instrument facia should be brushed black (not woodgrain), single spoke steering wheel, highrise console etc. The trim facings, door trims & headlining should be the later style plush velour (same grain as VH-VL) with the crystalline appearance, not the crushed velour of the VB (that can look a bit creased, and is flatter in the pile).

Does it have VB or VC type bar rubbers & over-riders? When you say stainless, are you talking about the front & rear screen moulds (which the VB didn't get)? How are the side rubbing strips attached? Are they the thin VC ones or the thicker VB ones? Where are the side badges located?

To rule out the chance that someone could have added all these VC bits to a rare VB, I'd be looking at the items that are much tougher to cover up - how the rear headrest brackets are attached (as VB didn't have them), how the rear bracket for the centre console is attached to the floor (again, introduced on VC) and the central locking relay wiring (minor variances in them). Does it have cruise control?

Seems awfully early for a marketing/press prototype, but it could well have been built for a colour clinic, to seek feedback on the combo - but it wouldn't have needed to be a VC for that task.


I just pulled the VC grill out of it and it has written on the bottom side of the grill in faint chalked immage: X/2
There are no part numbers anywhere on it.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:49:29 PM(UTC)
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The body has a large X in chalk on the rear panel where the back of rear seat would rest.
The VC Grill has X/2 in what looks like chalk or crayon mark on the bottom side, no other part number.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:50:02 PM(UTC)
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The glove box tire placard has VC written.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:54:19 PM(UTC)
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The old registration says its registered as a 1980 Holden sedan.
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, 15 October 2014 5:03:11 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by SLENUT
I don't take it to kindly on what you said on just commodore forums to me either.

I dont really care what you don't take kindly to you idiot.
I don't need you telling people I have a replica either.
Facts are this car ain't no standard VB! Period!
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1997 HRT GTS PILOT Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, 15 October 2014 5:08:31 AM(UTC)
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SLENUTJOB You think you know everything about everything don't you mate, I will tell you this, you know jack s***!
They never used my paint and trim code for VB SLE, was not used until VC!
Stop bagging my car, or do you have some kind of agenda going on?
Im organizing with commodorenut to come have a look at this car mate, he can tell me what he thinks of it.
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SLENUT Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 15 October 2014 5:14:01 AM(UTC)
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I didn't say you had a replica. They did use your paint on VB's, just rarely together. grey velour, 11Y was used in plenty of VB SL/Es.

I'm not bagging your car. Its rare, Commodorenut and myself know that. If you are a 40 year old, you wouldn't act like you do to be honest. Be mature about it, not angry, simple.

Edited by user Wednesday, 15 October 2014 5:14:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The Commodore SL/E fanatic.
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commodorenut Offline
#17 Posted : Wednesday, 15 October 2014 6:51:26 PM(UTC)
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Deer Park is a bit far away from where I stay (just north of the city).
Is the car running, or would I have to come there?

With regards to the markings on the rear seat bulkhead - they were all marked in some way - often it was a single or 2 digit number, other times it was a letter or just a dash. Not sure what it meant at the time, but I've had hundreds of backseats out, and they all have chalk.

If the grille has a silver painted border (not chrome) then it's an aftermarket grille from the 90s, and it won't have any part number on it. Taiwanese stuff is all like this (blinkers & lights too).
Original VC SL/E grilles sported vacuum-deposited chrome.

The headrests with the internal buttons are VC only. Actually, they're Opel...but Holden used them in the VC.

Can you remove the rear headrests, retainers, and back seat? Reason I ask, is if you can, then I'll get you to take photos of certain things.

Don't rely on the tyre placard - they had 2-letter broadcast codes like VA, VB, VC, VG etc, and different trim levels got different placards, so VC doesn't necessarily mean it's from a VC (and VB/VC SL/E had the same placard).

Above the aircon mode switch, does it have a recess or a plugged hole? VB 6s had a choke there, and thus had a hole drilled out, but it was left blank on V8s. VCs didn't have any provision at all (it was smoothed over). If someone has done a trim swap for VC seats, this is often missed, as it's a much more difficult job to remove the dash.

Does it have a hi-rise console in it? If so, take a photo of the bracket under the rear storage bin - particularly the welds & how it attaches to the floor.
Cheers,

Mick
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#18 Posted : Wednesday, 15 October 2014 8:57:26 PM(UTC)
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Cheers Mick.
Im about 10 - 15 mins from the City so not far at all.
Actually im 19 klms from the CBD.
I could come pick you up or whatever you want to do.
I haven't started the car yet, but if you want to pull things apart to inspect etc it would be best you came to my place and then we could do whatever we need to do to it.
It has a high rise console and the welds underneath it look factory.
The grill is NOT taiwanese, its GMH and had X/2 in chalk or crayon underneath.
As I own another authenticated prototype being the HSV VT GTS, i can tell you that a chalked X is for prototype.
X is GMH for experimental.
Its definitely all facyory fitted VC mate.
I believe it may have been repainted at some stage, not 100% sure but maybe you will know.
The black line under the top black is VH and a previous owner did that.
The car really needs a restoration but maybe you can steer me in the right direction as to what's best for the car.
When are you expecting to be in Melbourne?
Cheers, Damo.
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#19 Posted : Thursday, 16 October 2014 1:35:47 AM(UTC)
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Cheers Mick.
Im about 10 - 15 mins from the City so not far at all.
Actually im 19 klms from the CBD.
I could come pick you up or whatever you want to do.
I haven't started the car yet, but if you want to pull things apart to inspect etc it would be best you came to my place and then we could do whatever we need to do to it.
It has a high rise console and the welds underneath it look factory.
The grill is NOT taiwanese, its GMH and had X/2 in chalk or crayon underneath.
As I own another authenticated prototype being the HSV VT GTS, i can tell you that a chalked X is for prototype.
X is GMH for experimental.
Its definitely all facyory fitted VC mate.
I believe it may have been repainted at some stage, not 100% sure but maybe you will know.
The black line under the top black is VH and a previous owner did that.
The car really needs a restoration but maybe you can steer me in the right direction as to what's best for the car.
When are you expecting to be in Melbourne?
Cheers, Damo.
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commodorenut Offline
#20 Posted : Thursday, 16 October 2014 7:29:41 PM(UTC)
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I'll be there Tuesday & Wednesday nights - 28 & 29 October.

Send me an email: commodorenut (at) Gmail dot com with some pics of the car - inside & out, and the engine bay, and I'll start up a checklist of stuff to go through.
Cheers,

Mick
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