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Holdenon Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 11:25:27 AM(UTC)
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I saw the news today that Fiat are moving to join their Auto division, Opel in Germany & Chrysler US.

Does this include Saab, if so what will happen to the Holden Engines they use?

If GM survive in the US with Holden still under their banner will this give Holden an export opportunity into Europe with the LHD Commodore against the new Fiat/Opel range?

In the end their may be a good opportunity for Holden and Aust.
HKGTS186S Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 12:10:31 PM(UTC)
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Will be interesting to see how it all goes.

Hopefully job losses (of course especially in AUS) here are kept to a minimum.
80569K Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 6:10:52 PM(UTC)
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From what Ive read Ford has not asked for US government help and GM is looking to divest, so far Chrysler looks like the only one to be absorbed, the deadline for GM is not that far away either.

If GM does go full tilt on reducing itself to domestic US and export from the US only, where does that leave Opel, Vauxhall, Saab, Daewoo & Holden? We can see that Opel have been quick to look for a lifeline.

Just remember how quickly Mitsubishi dropped us.

Maybe Ford Australia and Holden might have to have a Technical merge. If they then listened to what the market wanted and kept their best products under two brands, that might be the only way to save both businesses and jobs. Should be able to stop importing some of the crap we do now and come up with better local models. Looks straight forward enough until you get to the Falcon Vs Commodore part, might get a left hand drive export Falcon though.

If Fiat can blend Opel & Chrysler into their fold on a world scale it should be pretty straight forward to combine our two and come up with the goods for domestic & export.

Edited by user Tuesday, 5 May 2009 6:12:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

hainzy Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 7:33:04 PM(UTC)
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Well heres a couple of interesting articles from about a month ago -


Australian car makers doomed, Holden first to go: Expert

A car industry expert claims Australias automotive industry is doomed, and says GM Holden will be the first local car maker to shut its doors.

Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of a guide for car buyers called the Dog & Lemon Guide, claims Holdens decision to halve production at its South Australian plant last month was the beginning of the end.

"Australias car factories are losing money on every vehicle they make," Matthew-Wilson said in a statement.

"No amount of incentives from the state and federal governments can solve this basic problem. Its not a matter of whether they close down, but when they close down."

Matthew-Wilsons doomsday claims come as Holdens parent company, Detroit-based General Motors, lurches closer to bankruptcy.

The New York Times revealed on the weekend that US Treasury officials have instructed the company to prepare to file for bankruptcy in the event it cannot finalise deals with bondholders (it needs their approval to restructure its debt) and unions (it needs their approval to cut benefits and pay) by 1 June.

While Holden officials insist GMs bankruptcy would not automatically force Holden to close, it would make the local companys position extraordinarily precarious.

Matthew-Wilson claims Ford and then Toyota would also be forced to close their Australian operations because of the precarious positions of their parent companies.

"Ford is losing billions just like GM; its just that Ford arranged private sector finance before the recession, so its not quite so obvious how serious things are," he says.

"Australias only other manufacturer, Toyota, is globally facing its first annual net loss in 59 years. How long do you think Toyota is going to put up with losing money by assembling cars in Australia?"

Matthew-Wilson has also slammed the Australian Governments decision to offer the automotive industry a $6 billion bailout package, including millions for the development of green cars. He says the size of Australias market and the relatively high cost of labour means there is no way to make the industry viable in the long term.

"The Australian car industry can re-focus on small cars, green cars, blue cars or red cars. None of this will make the slightest difference.

"Globally, theres a glut of new cars at bargain prices, yet Australia, which produces a small number of high cost cars, is trying to compete with countries like China, which produces 10 million cars a year and pays its car workers as little as one dollar per hour.

"Australias car plants are losing money faster than a drunk at a casino, and theres no feasible way of turning this around."


And then theres this reply of sorts....


HOLDEN has slammed a motoring journalists claim that Holdens operations in Australia are doomed.

Editor of the car buyers Dog & Lemon Guide, Clive Matthew-Wilson, said the Australian car manufacturer is poised to shut down for good because it can no longer compete in the global market.

But a Holden spokesperson questioned what right one person had to call time on an industry employing more than 60,000 people.

"What data is he basing his views on when happily sounding the death knell for Australian car makers and employees? the spokesperson said.

"Weve never had a request from this individual to speak with our executives, to discuss our company business plans or review the business case for our new fuel efficient, four-cylinder small car.

"This is shameless self-promotion at the expense of our industry, our organisation and our employees.

"Were in there fighting in a pretty tough global environment and we wont be discouraged by bystanders, the company said.

Holden said it would also continue with plans to produce a new four-cylinder car in Adelaide, the vehicles development helped by funds provided by both the South Australian and federal governments.

Beginning of the end

Mr Matthew-Wilson said Holden had signalled the beginning of the end when it recently halved production at its South Australian plan.

In early April the company announced that from May 4 it will reduce production at its Adelaide plant from about 600 vehicles a day to 310, citing reduced demand in domestic and export markets.

"Australias car factories are losing money on every vehicle they make," Mr Matthew-Wilson said in a statement.

"No amount of incentives from the state and federal governments can solve this basic problem.

"Its not a matter of whether they close down, but when they close down."

He said Holden will be the first to go, followed by Ford and then Toyota.

"People falsely believe that Ford is doing okay. Thats not true," he said.

"American Fords sales are down 43 per cent in the first quarter of this year.

"Ford is losing billions just like GM; its just that Ford arranged private sector finance before the recession, so its not quite so obvious how serious things are."

Amid the financial turmoil, the big three US car makers - Ford, Chrysler and Holden owner General Motors - have asked the US government for a loan guarantee of $US25 billion ($37.51 billion).

Earlier this year Toyota, the worlds No.1 car maker and Australian market leader, accepted a $35 million federal government grant to build a hybrid version of its four-cylinder Camry sedan in Melbourne from 2010.

But Mr Matthew-Wilson said the money is a waste.

"Globally, theres a glut of new cars at bargain prices, yet Australia, which produces a small number of high cost cars, is trying to compete with countries like China, which produces ten million cars a year and pays its car workers as little as one dollar per hour.

"The Australian government can throw $6 billion or $600 billion at these car plants, but they still wont be economically feasible," he said.

"Australias car plants are losing money faster than a drunk at a casino and theres no feasible way of turning this around.

"The Australian car industry can re-focus on small cars, green cars, blue cars or red cars. None of this will make the slightest difference."

Mr Matthew-Wilson believes the government money would have been better spent by giving it to the affected car workers.
80569K Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 7:52:07 PM(UTC)
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(Rant mode on)

Jeez, looks like the sky really is falling. Pity Obama wasnt the Pres when Bush stupidly bailed the US banks out, you remember them, they started this whole fiasco.

Carl Marx wasnt far from the truth when he said capitalism will eventually hang itself.

(Rant mode off).
Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 5 May 2009 8:15:51 PM(UTC)
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"Editor of the car buyers Dog & Lemon Guide, Clive Matthew-Wilson"

I think that says it all.

In my humble opinion, my 19 year old daughter knows more about the Australian motor industry than this guy. The whole article sounds like a beat-up, to promote his Dog & Lemon Guide.

He probably still believes in Global Warming as well.

Dr Terry
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HKGTS186S Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 4:04:12 AM(UTC)
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Lets see how it all goes.

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#8 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 4:31:37 AM(UTC)
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Man
Australia

Saw a letter in the Sydney Morning Herald the other day (I read it at lunch at work some times if I dont go to the pub). Went along the lines of;

"A 1968 Holden Monaro sold for $180,000 a few weeks back. Why dont Holden start making them again, instead of the cars they cant sell now for $40,000."

Thought it was funny at the time.

Kev
HKGTS186S Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 7:47:09 AM(UTC)
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What if they did ? And sold them for around the $50k mark ? I would say the demand would be huge ? A BRAND NEW(modern suspension brakes engine in old style shell) CAR THAT LOOKED THAT GOOD and at $50k cheap enough ? Would sell almost as many as they wanted. Look at the 67 Mustang fastbacks i think it is, they started making shells for again as they are so popular in a mass market like the US (and popular worldwide really)anyway would never happen and i guess for the guys that have a hk monaro they would be happy as it would protect the value of there car ?
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#10 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 10:34:21 AM(UTC)
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Dr Terry, you nailed it. If the extent of this writers qualification and experience has him writing for this previously unheard of guide, then i tend to agree that hes a sensationalist out for publicity.

Its like when you read a local paper, and the glowing review of whatever car has been kindly loaned to that papers token writer. This same car is then slaughtered by bigger publication with experienced journalists in various types of media who have the pick of their cars and dont owe manufacters favours.

Of course, its the media, so its mostly crap anyway. Haha.

As for Holden, its been described so often by so many as the "Jewel" in GMs crown, and i say, rightly so. I daresay it would be one of the last things theyd want to lose. Sadly it all comes down to dollars, not desire.
"Silly modern cars"
cannon Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 6:24:35 PM(UTC)
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Saw the sky news this morning (if you can believe them) saying Chinas Shanghai motors who assembles GM over there are looking at buying Holden? They will be able to go with a new marketing slogan angle.

" she goes like #hit off a Shanghai!!"
cannon Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 7:00:21 PM(UTC)
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I did my apprenticeship at GMH fishermans bend from HJ 75 to VH in 82. There were 8000 people employed there at that time. It was like a city in a city, I was a machining instructor for apprentices at the old GMH disco brake plant in Williamstown road then renamed Matec (management and technical education centre). They employed 120 first year apprentices a year at GMH every year and the apprentice wages were the best in the country. Spoke to a young bloke that was an apprentice there around 1999 and he told me they were down to under 700 people at the bend and put on 5 apprentices a year and when they finished thier time were not assured of a position in the company. how times have changed
Custom Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 6 May 2009 7:10:35 PM(UTC)
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I would say that automation and robotics as well as the amount of components now getting made in Taiwan / China would have a massive part to play in that, more than the "Economic Downturn".
Jim5.0 Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 8 May 2009 12:18:06 AM(UTC)
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My clock radio alarm is set to some obscure AM station as it wont get anything else. Yesterday it woke me up to a discussion about the viability of Holden and the person talking was stating that GM needs Holden a lot more than it needs Opel because Opel makes smallish cars rather expensively whereas Daewoo makes them cheaply. Holden is GMs world wide developer of the large rear drive platform (hence Camaro) if they lose Holden they lose the Commodores brilliant platform and any future developments of it.

So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Whats this about Holden being the first Australian auto manufacturer to shut its doors? Has the author forgotten about Leyland, Renult (yes they made cars here in the 70s) Nissan and Mitsubishi?


If at first you dont succeed then skydiving is not for you.

ozchevy Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, 8 May 2009 1:51:42 AM(UTC)
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Jim - One thing, Camaro is a mid size car in America.

The release of the new model should do well for GM, they need it badly with the closure of its Pontiac division. I think they have done the right thing really with styling close to the old 67-69 front and rear treatment, and combining a range of power plant options from a V6 - V8 with a full race breed engine available with the V8. Colours are a little ordinary in my opinion, but this maybe something that GMH may look into in the near future, with 68 - 70 styling Monaro with modern engines. Who knows?
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 8 May 2009 2:03:12 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim5.0
Whats this about Holden being the first Australian auto manufacturer to shut its doors? Has the author forgotten about Leyland, Renult (yes they made cars here in the 70s) Nissan and Mitsubishi?

The number of different auto brands to be built in Australia is quite long. You mention Renault, what about Volvo, Volkswagen, Citroen, Peugeot, M/Benz, Rambler, Triumph etc etc.

Dr Terry.
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
BREDBO Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, 8 May 2009 3:15:16 AM(UTC)
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Eyerybody sing,"Football,Meatpies,Kangeroos and Holden Cars!" correction new song same tune "Ping Pong,Dim Sims,Panda Bears and Holden Cars!"
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#18 Posted : Friday, 8 May 2009 7:42:51 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry

The number of different auto brands to be built in Australia is quite long. You mention Renault, what about Volvo, Volkswagen, Citroen, Peugeot, M/Benz, Rambler, Triumph etc etc.

Dr Terry.



Yes that was somewhat deliberate because Volvo and Volkswagen were assembled by the Nissan plant (isnt that why nearly all Volvos, VWs and Datsuns in the 70s were the same shades of white, blue, orange, mustard or olive green?).

The AMI factory that did Ramblers and Triumphs got absorbed by Toyota who still manufactures here. Dont know about Citroen, Benz or Puggy though as I didnt realise they were assembled here.


If at first you dont succeed then skydiving is not for you.

Edited by user Friday, 8 May 2009 7:44:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


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