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we wreck 81837s only Offline
#41 Posted : Wednesday, 13 May 2009 7:53:06 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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I still struggle to see how it can be financially viable though.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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I totally agree...
80569K Offline
#42 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 2:49:45 AM(UTC)
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Looking at the website those guys are selling the Chevy bodies under licence from GM Restoration Parts using their own part numbers. If they were to have a licence from GMH for the HK Monaro and used part number 7434633 or their own part number as a replacement part number and this was all legally endorsed by GMH how could the RTA etc refuse to register these cars.

A body shell is a part, check the HK parts catalogue item 10.002.

Edited by user Thursday, 14 May 2009 5:37:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

JBM Offline
#43 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 8:04:22 AM(UTC)
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In case nobody else has posted in the last 5 pages the GMP&A Toranas were also spare part body shells, some of those could have been registered.

Most rego authorities use the chassis numbers for older cars because its actually stamped into the car.

James


You only have to be in front at the end of the race.

You only have to be in front at the end of the race.
Jim5.0 Offline
#44 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 8:33:33 AM(UTC)
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James has reminded me of a good point.

Whats to stop you getting a police number stamped into one of these new bodies? Should be quite easy if you have a receipt to prove that you bought the body shell.

Anyway Im sure that the intended manufacturer would have this covered otherwise he is wasting his time and effort even contemplating building something unable to be registered.


If at first you dont succeed then skydiving is not for you.

80569K Offline
#45 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 8:54:02 AM(UTC)
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I would think that if GMH agreed to this they would be very strict on a number of things and it would be a fair bet that these shells would be numbered as a GMH requirement for licence purposes and that the makers would have to cover every legal hurdle for rego. They would have to make sure that the punter was not going to come a gutza at the rego shop in order to legally cover their own backsides, after all they would want to sell as many as possible.

That is, if they are going to do the HK Monaro anyway, better to wait and see what comes of it all.
HK1837 Offline
#46 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 4:03:23 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by JBM
In case nobody else has posted in the last 5 pages the GMP&A Toranas were also spare part body shells, some of those could have been registered.

Most rego authorities use the chassis numbers for older cars because its actually stamped into the car.

James


You only have to be in front at the end of the race.


James, all body shells were available as spare parts not just Toranas. They normally got a BODY plate with the part number as a BODY number, sometimes with PRIME as the paint code. GMP&A just means GM Parts and Accessories (earlier called NASCO). But you are right, for early stuff like HK-HG they must have been registered somehow. I have seen plenty of replacement HQ-WB chassis put on cars though that were never given a chassis number and the car continued to wear its ADR tag chassis number on its rego papers.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Monaro202 Offline
#47 Posted : Thursday, 14 May 2009 8:15:33 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by 80569K
I would think that if GMH agreed to this they would be very strict on a number of things and it would be a fair bet that these shells would be numbered as a GMH requirement for licence purposes and that the makers would have to cover every legal hurdle for rego. They would have to make sure that the punter was not going to come a gutza at the rego shop in order to legally cover their own backsides, after all they would want to sell as many as possible.

That is, if they are going to do the HK Monaro anyway, better to wait and see what comes of it all.


GM-Holden wont give a rats arse about these shells, bigger problems like selling new ones, I doubt if they even kept the copyright on these designs as back then who wouldve thought people would be interested in remaking a 40 years old car, nor would GM or Holden be prepaired to go through the legal process to stop these bodies from being made, it would be very cost restrictive & the number built wouldnt worry holden in the slightest, otherwise they wouldve jumped all over rares years ago, the only thing I think would create a issue would be the use of the Holden name or logo to sell these things.
As for rego/ rebodying, I was informed by a high up vicroads officer/inspector that "if done properly, what they dont know dont hurt them", this was in relation in rebodying a HQ GTS coupe a few years back using a doner body.

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move
HOLDEN The Great Way to Move
80569K Offline
#48 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 1:01:31 AM(UTC)
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Monaro202, ask the bloke who was selling disc copies of the HK parts catalogue on ebay whether Holden gives a rats arse about 40 year old product.

Even if they went down the gurgler the receivers would want money out of it, Holden doesnt have to do anything other than send threatening letters to anyone who violates their copyright, remember if there is a dollar in it any corporation worth their salt will want a piece of the action.

I think you will find that Rare Spares is licenced to make and sell GMH product which would come at a cost to Rares.

You must have spoken to that vicroads bloke before the vic police set up their rebirthing squad.
bosko Offline
#49 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 5:12:04 AM(UTC)
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what happened did he get sued?
we wreck 81837s only Offline
#50 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 6:30:38 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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quote:
Originally posted by 80569K
Monaro202, ask the bloke who was selling disc copies of the HK parts catalogue on ebay whether Holden gives a rats arse about 40 year old product.

Even if they went down the gurgler the receivers would want money out of it, Holden doesnt have to do anything other than send threatening letters to anyone who violates their copyright, remember if there is a dollar in it any corporation worth their salt will want a piece of the action.

I think you will find that Rare Spares is licenced to make and sell GMH product which would come at a cost to Rares.

You must have spoken to that vicroads bloke before the vic police set up their rebirthing squad.


well said mate, and i agree, GM will jump on you, just as Ford has jumped on a well known reproduction joint in vic just recently, still waiting of the outcome of that...

as for the shells happening, Ill believe it when its in my face, looking right at me..
Absinth Offline
#51 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 9:08:14 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Monaro202, ask the bloke who was selling disc copies of the HK parts catalogue on ebay whether Holden gives a rats arse about 40 year old product.


A parts catalogue is a different kettle of fish to spare parts. The parts catalogue is a GM-H publication and is subject to copyright. Vehicles and their parts are subject to design registration ... not copyright.
quote:
well said mate, and i agree, GM will jump on you, just as Ford has jumped on a well known reproduction joint in vic just recently, still waiting of the outcome of that...


Do you know the details of this? Ford has done nothing about parts reproduction in other circles of vintage car restoration so it seems strange they would bother with it now.

Up until the new designs act 2003 which came into effect in June 2004 you could register a design for a maximum period of 16 years, initially for 1 year and then 3 x 5yr renewals... an aftermarket company can reproduce parts if the design is no longer registered. Our early Holdens have long passed the expiry date on registered designs.

Under the new act a company can manufacture non-genuine spare parts for any vehicle manufactured after June 2004 without infringing registered design. Design registration is now a maximum of 10 years.


As for reproduction body shells.... they can legally produce them but it is illegal to use one to re-shell your car.

From Vic roads vehicle standards May 2006.

Reshelled Vehicles
The practice of re-shelling a damaged vehicle by using
either a body in white or a salvaged body shell is no
longer allowed. Re-shelled vehicles will not be accepted
for registration

SECTIONALISED REPAIRS
A sectionalised repair should be carried out in
accordance with the following guidelines. However the
vehicle manufacturers recommendations or
procedures plus industry codes of practice applying to
the repair will also need to be complied with.

Requirements
All repairs should be carried out by qualified tradesmen
in such a manner that the safety and structural
soundness of the vehicle is not adversely affected as
compared with its original standard of manufacture.
The section to be used should be:

A new section supplied as a service assembly by the
vehicle manufacturer or,

A suitable assembly removed from a new body shell THIS IS THE INTERESTING BIT
as supplied by the vehicle manufacturer, or

A suitable undamaged section salvaged from
another vehicle of the same make, model and variant
as the damaged vehicle.
The section must be of a similar age or younger, and in
a sound and generally undamaged condition with no
previous major repairs which could affect the strength
of the basic structure.


However, it seems you can leagally cut the cowl off a new body shell and use the suitable complete (from cowl back) assembly grafted onto your original cowl as a sectionalised repair.
bullitljv8 Offline
#52 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 9:25:52 AM(UTC)
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if they do make these hk monaro shells there is nothing stoping anyone buying one and transfering there tags firewall number ect,ect,and having a brand new 1968 monaro now that there is most parts to complete a resto to concourse condition the shell would be the icing on the cake for people just glad i have an original one already!!!

Edited by user Friday, 15 May 2009 9:28:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

we wreck 81837s only Offline
#53 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 10:01:32 AM(UTC)
we wreck 81837s only

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quote:
Originally posted by Absinth
quote:
Monaro202, ask the bloke who was selling disc copies of the HK parts catalogue on ebay whether Holden gives a rats arse about 40 year old product.


A parts catalogue is a different kettle of fish to spare parts. The parts catalogue is a GM-H publication and is subject to copyright. Vehicles and their parts are subject to design registration ... not copyright.
quote:
well said mate, and i agree, GM will jump on you, just as Ford has jumped on a well known reproduction joint in vic just recently, still waiting of the outcome of that...


Do you know the details of this? Ford has done nothing about parts reproduction in other circles of vintage car restoration so it seems strange they would bother with it now.

Up until the new designs act 2003 which came into effect in June 2004 you could register a design for a maximum period of 16 years, initially for 1 year and then 3 x 5yr renewals... an aftermarket company can reproduce parts if the design is no longer registered. Our early Holdens have long passed the expiry date on registered designs.

Under the new act a company can manufacture non-genuine spare parts for any vehicle manufactured after June 2004 without infringing registered design. Design registration is now a maximum of 10 years.


As for reproduction body shells.... they can legally produce them but it is illegal to use one to re-shell your car.

From Vic roads vehicle standards May 2006.

Reshelled Vehicles
The practice of re-shelling a damaged vehicle by using
either a body in white or a salvaged body shell is no
longer allowed. Re-shelled vehicles will not be accepted
for registration

SECTIONALISED REPAIRS
A sectionalised repair should be carried out in
accordance with the following guidelines. However the
vehicle manufacturers recommendations or
procedures plus industry codes of practice applying to
the repair will also need to be complied with.

Requirements
All repairs should be carried out by qualified tradesmen
in such a manner that the safety and structural
soundness of the vehicle is not adversely affected as
compared with its original standard of manufacture.
The section to be used should be:

A new section supplied as a service assembly by the
vehicle manufacturer or,

A suitable assembly removed from a new body shell THIS IS THE INTERESTING BIT
as supplied by the vehicle manufacturer, or

A suitable undamaged section salvaged from
another vehicle of the same make, model and variant
as the damaged vehicle.
The section must be of a similar age or younger, and in
a sound and generally undamaged condition with no
previous major repairs which could affect the strength
of the basic structure.


However, it seems you can leagally cut the cowl off a new body shell and use the suitable complete (from cowl back) assembly grafted onto your original cowl as a sectionalised repair.


yes i do know about this establishment, i have personally seen and read the letter sent to them by fords legal advisors,but i am unsure about the status now as i dont really need to get into it either.
Absinth Offline
#54 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 10:04:58 AM(UTC)
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Except the fact it is illegal to re-shell a car and if you are caught when you go to register it you will have your $50,000 restoration confiscated.

Interestingly, we re-shelled a mates XY GT Falcon back in 1982 with a Fairmont shell. No one gave a rats back then. I wonder how that car is fairing now a days and what if any contraversy there is over it?
72wallaby Offline
#55 Posted : Friday, 15 May 2009 11:04:53 PM(UTC)
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Getting away from the re-shelling topic.
I always cringe when I see some rare old car (Holden or Ford) down the drags, would hate to see them wrecked. So I was thinking how awesome it would be (assuming these cars became popular enough) if people started dragging them in a new drag category like say nostalgia replica or some thing similar.
80569K Offline
#56 Posted : Saturday, 16 May 2009 4:54:32 AM(UTC)
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Quoting Absinth - "However, it seems you can leagally cut the cowl off a new body shell and use the suitable complete (from cowl back) assembly grafted onto your original cowl as a sectionalised repair".

Just like in the aviation restorers industry, where they build complete World War 2 fighter aircraft around a genuine firewall, engine mount and data plate and its not referred to as being anything other than the genuine article restored. Imagine a restored 81837 with a new body shell and all original components being declared the real deal because it is wearing the correct tags & stamp on an original cowl and firewall. (Says he donning the fireproof hazmat gear with flak jacket and helmet).

Anyway, the deal with the body shells is a whole lot of ifs, buts & maybes.

I still reckon that if they were to come out with GMH approval as a "Restorers" replacement part and provided that the rest of the finished car was made up of original model components with approved mods why would rego not be granted? you could never claim it was anything other than what it is because there would be plenty of production differences to pick out and besides that the act of putting original tags on it is a criminal offence with nasty consequences as pointed out many times in this forum.

Edited by user Saturday, 16 May 2009 6:23:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

h81837k Offline
#57 Posted : Saturday, 16 May 2009 5:04:42 AM(UTC)
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Hey!!! absinth as of youre reply to reshells etc etc i actually work for the RTA and weree not in the busines of repossing peoples cars think of the legal drama it would cause we just report to the police if we think ;or no its suspicious in this case reshelled we have not got the power to confiscate
bundybluedog Offline
#58 Posted : Saturday, 16 May 2009 5:49:24 AM(UTC)
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its all happening tommorow i heard down at the old bowling alley at lawnton. might go have a lookski. is anyone from here heading out there?
Havent you learnt anything from that guy that gives sermons at church?...Captain whats his name.
davequey74 Offline
#59 Posted : Saturday, 16 May 2009 6:17:25 AM(UTC)
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make sure you take a pic or 10, and post them for us all to see, i to need to see this to belive it

i say bringemon, i hope they do HQs one day
bundybluedog Offline
#60 Posted : Sunday, 17 May 2009 11:24:24 PM(UTC)
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well its all true they are making whole car bodys, i forgot to ask about rego as it was hard to talk cause other people wanted to aswell. They are starting with the front sections IE nose cones, support panels , bonnets and guards and working back from there depending on demand. They had little chinesse guys running around who were the manufactuers. they had a XY ute there with a full repro front end made which was a proto type and it matched up really well he said it has a few faults but they said they wont be released until its all perfect so noone can complain. about to be released is HK T G GTS guards and bonnets, GTR Guards and full front sections. LJ tail light surrounds and head light surounds all the good stuff. he had full repro HK T G consoles and they were perfect even had the steel trim, even had HK GTS boot strip $400 and you cannot tell the diferance. they hve which you can buy alreday 55 and 57 hardtop coupe and convertable bodys, 67 68 69 camaro 70 camaro 1970 chevelle and chevelle convertable. 67 and 68 fast back and coupe and covertable bodys. the list goes on. It Early holden spares who are doing it and all the high demand stuff will be made.
Havent you learnt anything from that guy that gives sermons at church?...Captain whats his name.
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