Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 435
Thanks: 7 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
If you have a photo from the Nationals you'd like to share please add it. I'll kick it off with one of Nick Gontas' fabulous HK Pinaroo Beige Monaro which has now won the Monaro Nationals Concours award three times in a row. Also I've added a pic and also our HK SerII GTS327 which won the Car of Show award at the first Nationals back in 1998(then owned by the late Geoff Brown) this car won the Mild Custom category at this year's Nationals. The fact that it can still achiece an award at a Nationals twelve years after restoration is a huge compliment to it's two previous owners Geoff Brown and Steve Clark. Enjoy. Nick Moran .   8 F1 World titles. 10 Bathurst wins......HA!HA! Grafton Speedway Club Rookie of the year 2006...True.... |
"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!" |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/09/2007(UTC)
Posts: 237
|
Hey Nick, Nice shots, beautful cars. I have a heap of shots from this years nationals at: http://s1017.photobucket...naro%20Nationals%202010/Here are some shots of my 350 muncie Kingswood (yup I'm the guy you spoke with while driving out of the show and shine) taken at the place I was staying at:     Cheers Mark Cheers Mark [email protected]Edited by user Monday, 13 September 2010 10:14:01 AM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 435
Thanks: 7 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
|
"HOLDEN MONARO. OUT TO DRIVE YOU WILD!" |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/09/2007(UTC)
Posts: 237
|
Hi Nick, I replied to your email but I received an error message back saying that your mailbox is full so it could not be delivered. Cheers Mark [email protected]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 328
|
Have noticed recently some HKs being referred to as a Series11 GTS327s. Is that a reference to a Type11 GTS327 ?......Jack
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 690
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
dunno about that goontas monaro winning again. plenty o people all weekend picked heaps o things just not right with that one. no build sheet to confirm a lot of it either
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
I can assure you that nick's car is not perfect, just closer to perfect than any other car there on the day. We have also found that some are not aware of what options were available, with people on here complaining about the carpet and chrome scuff plates, which were available options.
So if there are so many errors with the car, we can discuss them here and find which ones are faults and which ones are people making incorrect statements if you wish.
Also as NO car is suppose to have a build sheet in it when it leaves the factory, if we made build sheet compulsory for concours there would be no cars in it. (only a few cars had them left in them or the dealer, who was supplied a copy, and still is today, sometimes gave them to the owner)
We could use the original sales reciept for the car as every car had this given to the original purchaser with all options and prices on it, including dealer fitted items. Everyone would have this for their car. (I got this with the first car I purchased, but have never managed to get it with any other car, even the one I purchased from my father in law)
As well as the orignal books (it was proposed that every car had to display its original books to be included in concours, but this was over ruled as many do not have them and therefore no matter what they did to their car could never enter the class).
I hope that clarifies some points.
Warren
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410  Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
I thought the three cars entered in the concours class at the recent Nationals were outstanding. Nicks car is a magnificent example and a real credit to him. However, there are certain things that still dont add up.
It is my understanding (correct me if i am wrong) that when the beige Monaro rolled up to be scrutineered at the 2006 Loxton Nationals, it did not qualify for the concours class because it had a HK GTS steering wheel. Proof of it being a factory/dealer fitted option was required and if not existent, then he had to find a standard HK steering wheel (which from memory he did and had it painted and fitted in 24hrs, good effort). I agreed with this and thus a precedent was set.
Fast forward to 2010, the same car is entered in the concours class again. This time though, something was overlooked which really didnt qualify it for this class and is no different to the example above of 2006. The beige base model has chrome scuff plates which are listed as only being available on GTS. Now, I cant find any evidence of a 'package' in any of the GMH parts catalogues or Nasco accessory brochures. Is there an ammendment I am missing? Was there a dealer update bulletin?
Irrespective of the fact that chrome scuff plates "were part of a package if the base model was optioned with carpet", the precedent set in 2006 would be enough to make this vehicle not qualify for the concours class without 'paperwork'. Also, how is this different from an outstanding stock CV8Z entered. One owner from the factory, with paperwork and window tint dealer fitted before delivery, being put into a modified class because of the tint??
I have a one owner unmolested, untouched, parked for 28 years HT Kingswood. It once belonged to a Woodville GMH employee. It has many factory options including 140mph sports dash, 6" rims, 4 speed, recliners etc. It also has carpet from factory BUT... it has the plain unchromed scuff plates. I have another HG Kingswood wreck in my yard factory ordered with carpet and no chrome scuff plates.
Without getting into the completely wrong coloured carpet (gee, didnt Paul Kelly miss out because of wrong vinyl? and the winner had HT carpet in it?) amongst other things, the scuff plate topic is enough evidence, in my opinion and basing it also on the precedent set in the past, that the beige HK should not of qualified for the concours class. |
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
|
I think sometimes people forget that concours is a restoration class...
as i understand it and im happy to be corrected....all 3 cars entered in concourse qualified in that category under the entry guidlines published on the monaro nationals website... if they didnt they would have been recategorised at scrutineering....
if something is incorrect on a car points are deducted during judging and the car that is most correct or least incorrect for that matter, is judged the winner of the category...
so carpet and wrong trim colour aside the simple fact is there must have been less wrong with the beigemobile than the warwick yellow car... unless you are suggesting the judging was rigged....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410 Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
No, I am not suggesting it was rigged. It should of have been recategorised at scrutineering.
I have just re-read the CONCOURS CLASS GUIDELINES and EXAMPLES on page 9 from the 2010 Judging Manual. One bullet point states:
"GMH listed options as well as Nasco/GMP&A and Holden accessories as per the model series specifications are permitted"
Does this mean Nick could of put his GTS steering wheel of 2006 back on and it would of qualified for this class?
The door handle scratch plates on the beige HK coupe were HR type. The HK HT HG Nasco type had a different design with the Holden lion on them as opposed to the plain ribbed HR type. Does this qualify? or was it overlooked? HR scratch plates on a series 2 HK?
|
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
Interior finish package on base model Monaro gives chrome scuff plates and anti glare rear vision miror.
Carpet optional, but not part of interior dress package, and not compulsary with carpet.
Hope that helps.
Warren
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410 Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
Where is/was this package listed? In which GMH literature? As above mentioned, if there is/was such a 'package', without documentation, how would it qualify upon scrutineering for the concours class when the same car didnt qualify in 2006 with a GTS steering wheel? |
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
Nick was told in 2006, by myself, that the steering wheel had to go or he went into modified.
He changed it, and therefore qualified, end of story.
Will try and dig up the documentation on the interior finish package, we have it somewhere as it is listed in our book.
My experience has been HK no lion emblem on paint protection lates, HT/G has them. Will further investigate for you. As posted elsewhere, this maybe a Sydney thing.
On the steering wheel the answer is no he cannot put it back on as options and accessories are just that, so if was not optional or accessory on that vhicle then not allowed.
How is Nick's car a series II? What citeria for series are you using here? By my reconning a sereis II would be an pre 8/68 with late pillars, so a very early HK Monaro, using the early type paint protection plates.
Warren
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410 Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
I dont think I have ever seen the non lion scratch plates in any HKTG literature. Thats not to say that a small country dealership that didnt turn over its Nasco products as much as a city/suburban dealership, had excess HR scrath plates in stock and didnt order the new type until the old type were all sold seeing as the size and fitment are the same. The lion type was definitely HKTG.
Is Nicks a pre 8/68? ID plate is on top cowl panel as opposed to centre firewall. White bordering around instrument gauges. Both of these observations form part of my hunch it is a series 2. |
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
So what is a series II. Yourstatement.
To me a Series II HK Base model Monaro would have the late pillars but tag on the firwall.
What do you call a series II?
Warren
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410 Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
If in your opinion a series 2 has the tag on the firewall , then a HK with compliance plate on the top cowl panel is series 3?.
I base it on a series (pun) of observations. Im not sure there was anything 'official' about there being a series 2 (correct me if i'm wrong, bulletin, dealer update etc.), but with a model run spanning 18 months ,there were many changes along the way, seemingly around the same time but I cant put a concrete date on it.
In the HK, the front inner door handle location, pillar, bottoms of inner front doors, engine bay pressings etc are all obvious ones we know changed pre Monaro/Brougham release. Series 2 HK Kingswoods had a small stainless steel moulding deleted from the dogleg. Jacana Blue interior vinyl replaced Teal Blue and was released in the latter of 68. The two speed fan switch that could be activated by sliding the control knob fully to demister, later deleted because you couldnt turn the fan off with it in demister position therefore breaking switches.There many others I cant think of now. |
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,058
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 203 time(s) in 184 post(s)
|
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
If in your opinion a series 2 has the tag on the firewall , then a HK with compliance plate on the top cowl panel is series 3?.
I base it on a series (pun) of observations. Im not sure there was anything 'official' about there being a series 2 (correct me if i'm wrong, bulletin, dealer update etc.), but with a model run spanning 18 months ,there were many changes along the way, seemingly around the same time but I cant put a concrete date on it.
In the HK, the front inner door handle location, pillar, bottoms of inner front doors, engine bay pressings etc are all obvious ones we know changed pre Monaro/Brougham release. Series 2 HK Kingswoods had a small stainless steel moulding deleted from the dogleg. Jacana Blue interior vinyl replaced Teal Blue and was released in the latter of 68. The two speed fan switch that could be activated by sliding the control knob fully to demister, later deleted because you couldnt turn the fan off with it in demister position therefore breaking switches.There many others I cant think of now.
I think this is exactly Warren's point. There are no Series 1 or Series 2 in any Holden prior to WB, just many updates throughout the particular model run. I think the Type 1 & Type 2, 327 engines have muddied the waters in that area. It's even difficult to nail down exact dates for the various upgrades you've mentioned because it was different for each plant. BTW, I thought they didn't get compliance plates until mid-HT. So there would be no HK with a compliance plate at all. Dr Terry _________________________________________ When calculating a car restoration budget, be as accurate as you can & then double the final figure. It will be closer to the truth. |
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
That is right Terry, no such thing as series II in base model Monaro, in any shape or form. So was trying to clarify what he ment by series II.
Series I and II first appears on the trimatic trans though.
Are you sure the HB Torrana did not have a series I and II, or was the 68 update only called the 69 model?
So much info, so little space to store it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 10/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,357
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 27 post(s)
|
In the HK, the front inner door handle location, pillar, bottoms of inner front doors, engine bay pressings etc are all obvious ones we know changed pre Monaro/Brougham release.
The engine bay pressing and interior door handle movement happened after the Monaro Brougham release, check parts books for 74 and 28 part number door trims for Brougham and many August built Monaros have smooth RH inner guard.
Series 2 HK Kingswoods had a small stainless steel moulding deleted from the dogleg. Jacana Blue interior vinyl replaced Teal Blue and was released in the latter of 68
Jacana Blue and Teal blue were both available at the same time from each plant, for about 3 - 4 weeks. So a more accurate statment is Jacana blue became available, then soon after Teal blue was deleted.
Warren
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 410 Thanks: 12 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
[quote]Originally posted by Dr Terry
BTW, I thought they didn't get compliance plates until mid-HT. So there would be no HK with a compliance plate at all
I was referring to the tag. |
The HKTG Garage. The Home of HK HT HG Holden. |
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
