That won't happen I got a ve ss in 06was too dear then cost me $50k still have it only new car I'll ever have but the dealers wouldn't look after me when delivery damage occurred a few small interior issues then tyre wear problems so if the dealer can't help out the company won't I'll keep mine so have to buy up some wearing parts now so I can keep it on the road into the future all std so far except tyres and Repco filter

Good point on wages Terry.

In the 80s, and even the 90s, a storeman or forklift driver would live in a modest 3 bedroom house in outer suburbia, drive a 10+ year old car, and struggle to make ends meet.

These days they're buying 6+ bedroom McMansions, financing the latest 4WD on credit, and out buying 50+ inch plasmas & going on annual holidays overseas.

Sure the banks & to an extent the interest rates are responsible for some of this, but it seems the lower end of the wage spectrum has risen dramatically in relation to the rest of the labour market.

As a comparison, I work for a US company. In the US, management & admin staff get very similar wages to ours over here +/- 5% in dollars (ignoring the actual currency). The factory workers & unskilled labour force in the US (mostly in the middle to southern states) are only just above half the hourly rate of Australian workers. It's more profitable to manufacture stuff in the US now than it is in Oz!

This is exactly the problem Toyota face with the Camry - why pay workers in Altona nearly double, when the workers in Kentucky can do an equally good (or better) job. Sure, it may only be $1500 difference in the cost of the finished product, but when you're punching out 100,000 Camrys it becomes $150 million reasons to the beancounters.

Hell they'll spend 3 weeks evaluating a new clip to save 5c on each car, so $1500 is just too big a carrot to ignore.

quote:

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Originally posted by wbute
You can not compare wages of years gone by and living standards! Money is much more easily borrowed now than ever before.
All those cars that were CKD were sent like that because the cost of setting up a complete manufacturing plant was unrealistic!
Holden nearly went bust in the 80s! Commodore was a last ditch effort at cheaper production methods.... Subsidised by us the tax payer.

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You CAN compare wages & living standards if we are only talking 20 years ago. Heck the price of a new Commodore hasn't increased much at all in those 20 years. A VR Acclaim was $30,000 in 1993, not much less than today's VF Evoke. but the Evoke is a much better car with more equipment.

There are some wage earners out there who don't earn much more than they did in 1993, their living standards have gone south big time. Union workers at Aussie car plants can't claim that, can they ?

Many of those cars that I listed were not CKD. OK, most of the US & Euros were, but Valiants, VW, Austin, Morris, Leyland, Wolesely, Nissan, Mitsubishi Sigma/Magna & Ford Zephyrs, Anglias, Cortinas, Capris & Escorts were built in Australia with above 80% local content.

The likes of BMC with their Minis etc, were as Aussie as the Holdens, Falcons & Valiants of the era, with not just their panels being pressed here out of BHP steel but their engine & gearboxes being cast & machined here. You won't find too many imported components in a 1960s Mini.

The mid-80s near collapse of GM-H was not subsidised by the tax-payers, GM US purchased the debt, which was so large ($600M in 1986) that GM had to deal direct with treasury so as not to effect the exchange or our economy.

Dr Terry

quote:

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Originally posted by wbute
Deal direct with treasury? Sounds like a another way of getting a deal that was not as obvious?
Perfect storm is a neat media statement. No doubt what actually happened was GM wanted a nice WHAMO way of pulling out of Australia. The government cops the flack and they claim poor us. It's too hard to do business here. Of course it is but they can't just come out and tell the truth. Wages are higher than in Thailand. They want to keep selling cars to Australians.

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I think you're making a conspiracy out of a simple international transaction. Keating was at the helm at the time & he was a good treasurer (credit were credit is due, I've HAVE voted Labor in the past, when they were worth voting for). Australia had only just floated the $$, so an influx of $600M in those days would've 'upset the apple cart' big time. Check out the Financial Review & other papers of the time, if you don't believe me.

The Government is only 'copping flack' from some sectors or the media, Labor pollies & the unions. Most of the population with more than a single brain cell knows that were a great number of contributing factors & it's not simply all Tony's fault. What was Labor's excuse when they were in control & 3 manufacturers closed shop (NIssan, Mitsubishi & Ford). Was that Labor's fault ?

You even could go back further in time, when VW & Leyland closed shop under Whitlam.

'Perfect Storm' is a good description I can't of a more apt term.

Dr Terry

I said he was a good treasurer, that's all, he was a cr@p Prime Minister.

Dr Terry

quote:

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Originally posted by KeithA
The Lima declaration of 1975. Anyone heard of it? Snippet here:

What is the Lima Declaration?

Although originating from 1975, the Lima Declaration has had far reaching effects and can clearly be seen as the blueprint for the disastrous policies embracing the bizarre philosophy known as �Globalisation�.

The Second General Conference of the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation (UNIDO) met in Lima, Peru, during the period March 12-26 1975 and the resulting declaration had disastrous ramifications for Australian industry. The basic reasoning behind the declaration was the drastic plight of the Third World was the result of the rapacious policies of the advanced industrial nations � Australia listed as one of these. The only way to rectify the situation was to transfer industrial resources from the advanced to the Third World, then to provide markets for Third World exports by buying products once produced locally.

Lots of information on Google.
http://www.nationalliber...q/the-lima-declaration/

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Yes thats the plan, It's called the money god they worship the most. it sticks out like dogs balls. you will lose your sovereignty to cuning low life grubs. they are a cancer like the golden calf mob who tryed to kill Holy Moses.

spot on cloudy thats exactly whats going to happen as i said in my first post they will wait till Holden is all dead and buried then they will whack the tariffs up & then say its the only way to save our industries .a bunch of mother f-cken pricks.just like lpg went today to fill up and its over a $1 a litre yeah lets save the environment

[quote]Originally posted by commodorenut
Good point on wages Terry.
"a modest 3 bedroom house in outer suburbia" where these workers live and work in the US is about $120k if you can find anything at that price in Aust' it won't be near any auto factory.

cost of living is what drives wages and who is controlling that?
CPI ring a bell!

I worked for US companies for decades and we used to get a lot of parts shipped and internally wrapped in local newspapers. The cost of living in the US was and is ridiculous compared to Aust.
The last US company I worked for in Aust survived on the unit cost price + 20% If we ever rose above that, imports were cheaper and we would go, india or mexico would supply Aust and although import quality was crap they did not care. It was and is only about maximum profit.

There is two sides to this story but no viable answer.

Cheers
Balfizar

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr Terry
I said he was a good treasurer, that's all, he was a cr@p Prime Minister.

Dr Terry

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He seemed to kick all the aussie businesses in the balls from what i seen. my uncle lost like 12 million and lots of others near went bankrupt by his swift foolish moves.
I would say he had some sort of mad vendetta against poms and wealthy true aussie people who were on the path to making australia great.
He wanted to destroy all relations with our traditions and grab hold of Asia for everything and they did not give a toss about us at all not as a people that's for sure. he was just a filthy mad type of communist to me. but sure he did repair some of the damage the total moron Whitlam caused.
Now the liberals were always gutless hopeless wimps who only looked after the top end of town be it of any nation that they will bow down to. So the NWO is our only path now and we will lose our sovereignty and become dictated to by the Political Correct Gods of the world.
Just sit back and let the TV educate you all.
We can have a car industry in this nation if we wanted to and Abbot is lying about protection. we have always protected the bloody car industry ya fool in one way or another 'tariffs' remember even up to 75 % to do so. so he is talking s*** !