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Leary360 Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 1:40:50 PM(UTC)
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Hi there,
I’ve got the following engine that I’m trying to identify.

Details:
Engine No: 11WT437439
Date Code: 2C4

I originally thought it was a 74 statesman block.
Now that I have removed the engine from the car i have noticed it’s got 308 cast on both sides!
What reading I have done lead me to believe holden didn’t have 308 cast on both sides until they went to VK commodore.
Would an 84 WB statesman have 308 cast on both sides?

Thanks Cam
gmholdman Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 1:54:46 PM(UTC)
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VK Commodore IS an 84 year model ?
Smitty2 Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 2:27:10 PM(UTC)
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11WT code = WB Stato

Cast date has to be 1974 or 1984 (ending in '4') and as its 11WT = WB Stato as a cast date of 84 fits (it actually would be WBII)
and 308 cast on the outside? always until they swapped to 5.0 on VL (or was it VN )
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HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 3:23:29 PM(UTC)
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Actually it is from a WB Deville. Caprice are differently numbered.

308 on both sides is about the second half of WB, VK and VL. It went to 5.0L from VN to mid VR then blank. XX4 could be 1994 too but not with 308 on the side(s).

Edited by user Wednesday, 19 May 2021 3:25:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Leary360 Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 3:32:31 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for clearing that up, I was a little puzzled when I seen 308 on both sides however it makes sense that both VK and WB blocks of the same year would have it cast on both sides.

I’m also looking to determine a date code for the following engine number,
I’ve PM’d HK1837 but says your inbox is full.

Eng No: QT901953
The 77 date coded blocks I’ve found Havnt had a number close to this could I be looking for the wrong date code?

Thanks Cam
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 19 May 2021 4:48:05 PM(UTC)
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QT9019xx will be from a HZ around October to December 1977, depending upon whether it was auto or manual and which BAP it was installed in. Don't pay much attention to date codes, that is a mug's game. The engine number is the important thing, but even that is a waste of time unless you have your original. Here is an example why:

J597737 is an L31 M41 cab-chassis completed on 2/12/77. It had engine number QT899896. 21 HZ's later is:
J597892, is an L31 M21 HZ van, probably a Sandman. It had engine number QT901816, competed on 22/11/77. Next car:
J597893, also an L31 M21 van. It had engine number QT905840, completed on 23/11/77.

There is no logic to the engine numbers, and if you found these engines the casting numbers could and did vary by up to months. Consecutive engine numbers could have the same cast date or be 3 months apart.

Edit, I just had a look at Elizabeth, and can see QT901951 in a manual GTS completed 31/10/77. And QT901952 in an auto Holden ute completed 26/10/77. Plus QT901947 & QT901949 both in manual Holden vans completed 1/11/77 and 3/11/77. However there are earlier numbers in cars completed into December and later numbers in October, so it is a dog's breakfast. I don't think V8 engines were sent on packs like 6cyl engines so QT901953 may well be in a Pagewood or Acacia Ridge or even Dandenong car.

Edited by user Wednesday, 19 May 2021 5:21:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Leary360 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 20 May 2021 9:53:54 AM(UTC)
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Thanks very much for all the info provided, still blows me away the amount of good information available on this forum.

Keep it up guys.
Cam
Mr.Jones Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 24 May 2021 9:28:23 PM(UTC)
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Leary360 did you send a message to HQSS? He can't login atm do you want to send me the message and I'll pass it on?
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Sandy Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 14 June 2021 12:56:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
QT9019xx will be from a HZ around October to December 1977, depending upon whether it was auto or manual and which BAP it was installed in. Don't pay much attention to date codes, that is a mug's game. The engine number is the important thing, but even that is a waste of time unless you have your original. Here is an example why:

J597737 is an L31 M41 cab-chassis completed on 2/12/77. It had engine number QT899896. 21 HZ's later is:
J597892, is an L31 M21 HZ van, probably a Sandman. It had engine number QT901816, competed on 22/11/77. Next car:
J597893, also an L31 M21 van. It had engine number QT905840, completed on 23/11/77.

There is no logic to the engine numbers, and if you found these engines the casting numbers could and did vary by up to months. Consecutive engine numbers could have the same cast date or be 3 months apart.

Edit, I just had a look at Elizabeth, and can see QT901951 in a manual GTS completed 31/10/77. And QT901952 in an auto Holden ute completed 26/10/77. Plus QT901947 & QT901949 both in manual Holden vans completed 1/11/77 and 3/11/77. However there are earlier numbers in cars completed into December and later numbers in October, so it is a dog's breakfast. I don't think V8 engines were sent on packs like 6cyl engines so QT901953 may well be in a Pagewood or Acacia Ridge or even Dandenong car.


Gday again, I have a saddle tan sandman van which we spoke about before. I have a hhs report which lists as engine number not recorded, do you have any info on 253 fittments cast dates engine number ball parks?
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 14 June 2021 11:49:39 AM(UTC)
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If HHS says it isn't recorded it means either the dealer never sent the information back to GMH or the car was built after mid 1978.

I don't record cast dates as they mean absolutely nothing. You can get consecutive engine numbers with cast dates up to 6 months apart (rare but I've seen it, normally up to 2-3 months). You can also get consecutive cars with engine numbers 10000 apart or consecutive numbers. If you don't have your original just use any 4.2L engine from the time period as its as good as any other. I'd just put a 5.0L in it, will cost the same to rebuild and won't devalue the car over the wrong 4.2L.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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Sandy on 14/06/2021(UTC)
Sandy Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 14 June 2021 10:44:47 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the reply, I’ll be going with a standard 253 original setup, I’m a big fan of originality, I don’t need to go fast.
Van is build date 12/77 warranty start date 2/78
Interesting with the cast dates and engine numbers being out of wack...

HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 14 June 2021 11:15:48 PM(UTC)
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Remember GMH never threw anything away if it could be used. If a block had problems anywhere from casting through to running on gas it would be put aside to be fixed later. Then put back through the process into the system and end up in a car. Most blocks ended up all good and became engines within days, then got shipped off to assembly plants. They got all mixed up at each assembly plant during the engine dress process. So there was numerous opportunities for cast dates and engine serial numbers and actual engines to end up all over the shop. You cannot predict any of it with any degree of accuracy, hence why it becomes a fruitless task, and to be honest pointless. Most people would have no idea what is correct or not. If you must have a 4.2 just find one dated in the 6 months prior to your compliance plate date and make sure it’s engine number starts with QR. at the end of the day though it’s really no more correct than an engine number starting with HR or 253H or VR or 11QR or similar. There was only one original engine number. You might find the car with a PSN one digit away from yours has an engine like say QR920000, where your number may have been QR941234 or QR899999. They really can vary that much or conversely they can be within a few digits. It all depends upon a combination of multiple factors, some already mentioned. Another is manual vs auto, they are very different engines and got used at different rates. Another is PSN in 12/77 is not a measure of adjacent cars, sometimes they can be completed a month apart which can greatly influence the engine number used, sometimes they might be completed on the same day.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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Sandy on 15/06/2021(UTC)
gmholdman Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 15 June 2021 9:46:54 AM(UTC)
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You also have to remember that we (I) was shipping out engines to 4 different assembly plants. We tried to ship out the older stock first but that did not always happen and as a result no one was fussed which engines went where. Also engines for rework or like waiting for parts could sit around for months before being transported out of F/Bend and so engine numbers were all over the place not to mention to dealers, hsv, proving ground, etc, etc. AL.

Edited by user Tuesday, 15 June 2021 9:54:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Sandy on 15/06/2021(UTC)
Smitty2 Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 15 June 2021 12:04:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gmholdman Go to Quoted Post
You also have to remember that we (I) was shipping out engines to 4 different assembly plants. We tried to ship out the older stock first but that did not always happen and as a result no one was fussed which engines went where. Also engines for rework or like waiting for parts could sit around for months before being transported out of F/Bend and so engine numbers were all over the place not to mention to dealers, hsv, proving ground, etc, etc. AL.


yeah.. and a bloke called Brock

who used to waltz into Exp Eng at FBend, look around for engines that had
been run on dynos with good results and say .. I'll have those 2 !
(oh and a couple of diffs while I am at it)

Used to drive me nuts, as he never ever gave notice he was turning
up and I was the finance guy responsible (as a signatory) for signing
these out of the plant. He was not allowed out past the gatehouse
until I turned with the correct signed (by me) paperwork....
Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
Sandy Offline
#15 Posted : Sunday, 20 June 2021 11:02:52 PM(UTC)
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Isn’t that ironic, gmh never threw anything out....
Now their throwing everything out.....
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 21 June 2021 8:43:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sandy Go to Quoted Post
Isn’t that ironic, gmh never threw anything out....
Now their throwing everything out.....


That is big boss GM. GMH doesn't exist anymore!

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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