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DW Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, 15 May 2022 7:04:44 PM(UTC)
DW

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The VJ prefix engine gets a mention as being a 5.0L

I was under the impression the VJ was a 304 and not a 308?

The blocks though do have the 308 on the side of them.

Its an amazing book to have in ones pocket, well done and thanks to Jadlaw Publishing for making it available to the common punter like myself.

Edited by user Tuesday, 17 May 2022 1:37:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 16 May 2022 7:59:18 AM(UTC)
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VJ is a 5.0L, 304ci (4987cc) and 308ci (5044cc) are both 5.0L. They never put 304 on anything and the engines were never (or rarely) referred to GMH or Holden as 304ci, they were always 5.0L or 4987cc. The blocks had HP (one side HT), 308 (one side HT to VH), 308 (both sides VK-VL) 5.0L (VN to mid VR) or blank once they started to be built as 304ci or 350ci ((mid VR to VSIII).
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 16/05/2022(UTC)
Warren Turnbull Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 16 May 2022 8:21:00 PM(UTC)
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Good to see people are using them.
DW Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 17 May 2022 1:36:22 AM(UTC)
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Many thanks Warren for giving me the ability to aquire a very comprehensive set of books detailing the Holden vehicle.

A lot of work has gone into those black books which is much appreciated, cutting my internet time down massively. For instance, I just got completely baffled in the HK and VL parts books trying to understand the 5/4.9L for instance and after about 3 hours im still not sure ive reached a answer!

Byron I understand that they never put 304 on anything with the 308 cast block carrying on along with how and why the 304 came to be.

What I don't get is that the 304 engine is referenced many times through the early commodore parts books with a specific prefix placed next to a specific designation, displacement, comp ratio ect

Its a bloody mess for me to try and comprehend with the VJ prefix 5.0L in the VL being given displacement of 4987, comp ratio 8.5 and then the 5.0L in the VK having a displacement of 5044, comp ratio 9,2:1.

VK eng for instance

VK HC 5.0L Prefix VZ - Piston Displacement Cu. Ins ....308

VK HC 4.9L Prefix VA,VB,VC,VG - Piston Displacement Cu. Ins ....304


The above figures from an external (not employed by Holden) point of view would indicate the 304 is mentioned as its own entity next to the 308 with the Ins Displacement indicating it is not a 5.0L? It never got to 5.0L?

Different internal components would also indicate the 2 engines are not the same?

In VL The LV2 option got you the standard VJ prefix 8 cylinder assembly which is written as being a 4.9L P/N (92027348)

Im confused as to why the VJ prefix is a 5L with the 4.9L 304 engine featuring a lot within Holdens early V series literature?

As an apprentice, If I was told to go and cut a 5m length of flat bar and it came back to the tradesman at a length of 4987m it would have cost me a carton as its not a 5m length?









8D11PCH2 Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 17 May 2022 7:07:43 AM(UTC)
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Holden have always rounded up or rounded down their engine capacities.
4987cc is closer to 5.0L than it is to 4.9L and 5044cc is closer to 5.0L than it is to 5.1L.
I suppose it is a marketing thing.
For Group A the engine capacity could not go over 5000cc (5.0L).

From a spare parts catalogue perspective it would be essential to make a clear differentiation between the two 5.0L engines.
What better way than to refer to the new 304ci as a 4.9L and retain reference to the 308ci as the 5.0L.

HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 17 May 2022 7:24:38 AM(UTC)
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I agree, in VK it would have been solely to make it clear that there was a difference between the engines. I know HDT put 4.9L on some of their engine air cleaners but Holden only used 5.0L from what I remember. Once they got to VL and onwards to the end of the Holden V8 in VSIII they were always called 5.0L except for those few higher capacity 350ci versions with longer stroke built for HSV that were called 5.7L used in some of the HSV VR, VS and VT based vehicles. HDT also made a stroked engine optional in VL but it was only 5.6L capacity and it wasn't made as a Holden production engine. I don't think the 350ci Chevrolet (or other SBC design derivatives built in Canada, Mexico or by GM Powertrain) engine was 350ci either, it was 349.85ci from memory.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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DW on 17/05/2022(UTC)
DW Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 17 May 2022 2:24:02 PM(UTC)
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When ordering a V8 the Parts catalogue would be referenced as it contains the Production Options available to potentially be applied to the vehicle with it being the correct reference for engine data?

As marketing is a tool purely to be used for propaganda, the engine data should be the defining factor when making reference to engine prefix? As stated earlier, because there is a difference between the engines from a component standpoint with the 308 being different to the apparently non existent 304.

Was the VZ prefix the last true 308 in the V Series? according to the parts book it is, as clearly seen in the attached screenshots.



Consumer - I Want a V8 in my new VL please Mr Salesman.

- Not a problem consumer, we will apply the LV2 production option which is stated in the parts catalogue as being a VJ prefix 4.9L.

Admittedly the lack of reference to the engine being a 304 exists but if you use the more informative engine data provided in the previous model the 4.9L engine is clearly noted as being a 304.





HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 17 May 2022 4:04:52 PM(UTC)
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VZ prefix was the V5H version of the 308, the base HDT engine and also Police spec engine with manual transmission that was essentially an L34 engine except with a small dish in the piston rather than flat tops and a bigger cam than the L34. So big valve heads, stronger rods and hogged out intake under the Quadrajet, just 1/2 point less compression plus the HJ onwards camshaft rather than a retarded 253 cam. VT was used alongside VZ and it was just the final evolution of the original 308 introduced in HT Brougham.

Same as that list of VA (standard 304), VB (V5H version) VC (VK Group A engine), different prefixes used for different components thus specification. AFAIK the VB prefix engine is the engine that homologated the VK Group A - they had to build 5000 of those engines and then 500 of the VC prefix variant to qualify for Group A. Remember Bathurst 1985? Peter Brock charging in a VK catching a ailing Jaguar with both front and rear screens on the VK gone - he busted a single row timing chain as the V5H version of the Commodore hadn't yet met the 5000 minimum.

If you wanted a VL Commodore or Calais you had two optional engines, the turbo Nissan engine or a V8. And the salesman would almost always have picked a V8 car off the schedule and sold you it. Unless you were buying one of the GroupA's and they cam standard with the V8 they came with. So the criteria was simply V8, although I haven't seen a VL order form to see what the tick box said if for some reason what you wanted was not scheduled already (like a VL V8 Executive wagon with black paint and blue seats).

As I said, they had all sorts of wierdo ways of doing stuff, but the VL-VSIII V8 was always a 5.0L, it was badged that way. For whatever reason they screwed around and called it a number of things through Parts Catalogues, but as always they are the least reliable source of facts as far as internal (not Sales) resources go.

Edited by user Tuesday, 17 May 2022 4:10:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
 1 user thanked HK1837 for this useful post.
DW on 18/05/2022(UTC)
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