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EHPHTB Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 12 September 2015 12:47:49 PM(UTC)
EHPHTB

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People,

I have noticed some brown gunk building up on the dipstick in the radiator overflow bottle. It is also present on the underside of the radiator cap. I have checked the underside of the rocker cover adjacent the oil fill point and only found traces of oil.

Car is 2003 VY, V6 (Ecotec), 208,000kms. These symptoms have been present for months. I cannot detect any rough running or overheating, but that doesn't mean nothing is wrong - I may be missing something.

Does this indicate head gasket problems.

Any advice welcome.

Cheers

Mick
commodorenut Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 12 September 2015 3:53:39 PM(UTC)
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Is the brown gunk oily/creamy in consistency, or is it dried onto the stick in the overflow?
If it's dry, it's likely to be rust, from ineffective coolant (too old, too diluted, or no coolant used at all).

If it's wet, and oily, then it could be an indication of a head gasket issue letting oil into the water, but it would be very rare - not only rare on an Ecotec, but also rare because you're more likely to get water into the oil as well. So check the engine oil dipstick to see if it has a "chocolate thickshake" appearance. If it does, then it's a sure sign of a head gasket or warped head (normally caused by overheating).

From my experience with VS-VY Ecotecs, when they do have head issues, it's rarely involving oil - it's normally coolant to cylinder pressure (they like to crack between the valves in the LH head at the rear) which will only show up as steam beyond warm-up, and a slightly rusty spark plug.

When this cracking has occurred, it's generally not enough to blow bubbles in the top of the radiator, but they consume maybe a litre a week or less for a daily commuter. This cracking usually shows up within weeks after a heater tap has let go - which is common in these cars now - and the lack of coolant in the head is the likely cause of the cracking.

In your shoes, the next thing I would do is pull the spark plugs out & inspect them - they can tell you if a cylinder is oily, getting coolant/water in, or running OK. From there, you can decide the next avenue in the diagnosis trail.
Cheers,

Mick
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EHPHTB Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 12 September 2015 7:43:06 PM(UTC)
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Mick,

Thank you for the reply.

The gunk is definitely a sludgey liquid, but it is very much brown and not creamy. The oil dipstick shows nice looking oil.

I will pull the plugs tomorrow and report back.

Thanks

Mick
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#4 Posted : Saturday, 12 September 2015 9:11:10 PM(UTC)
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I'd suggest being s sludgy liquid (and not oily) it's built up corrosion, caused by really old coolant that's well overdue for a change.

The alloy radiator & cast iron block combo in V6 commodores is well known as a galvanic cell, and coolant loses its anti-corrosive properties as it ages.

I'd be flushing the system really well, and refilling it with a quality coolant, diluted to the recommended level.

Edited by user Saturday, 12 September 2015 9:13:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed up spelling

Cheers,

Mick
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Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, 13 September 2015 9:19:41 AM(UTC)
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I agree with Commodorenut. The Ecotec V6 in a pretty tough engine & doesn't easily blow head gaskets. If it had, you would know about it.

Give the system a good flush, probably more than once & use a good quality coolant.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
EHPHTB Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 13 September 2015 9:06:44 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Dr Terry.

I didn't get the car back until late today.

Tomorrow I will pull the plugs to inspect them as I cant see any harm in doing so. If all is well I will proceed to flushing thoroughly and putting some quality coolant in.

Mick / Dr Terry - in your opinion, are the radiator flush additives worthwhile, or do without them.

Regards,

Mick
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#7 Posted : Sunday, 13 September 2015 9:33:31 PM(UTC)
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If it's as bad as you say it is, I would use the flushing additive - but make sure you follow the instructions, and be careful releasing hot coolant.

I have done it in the past on cars that I previously flushed using the garden hose & air line blast (thermostat removed) and then run the chemical flush through (just in plain water), and still got more out, so in my opinion they do work.

The downside is some people report that the gunk can clog the fine radiator core tubes, but I've never had that happen.
Cheers,

Mick
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EHPHTB Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 13 September 2015 9:43:30 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Mick
Tour Director Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 14 September 2015 8:45:33 AM(UTC)
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One thing to consider is the water you put into the cooling system. Some time ago CPC (who make radiator caps) had an issue with a customer continually destroying radiator caps. It turns out he was using water from a bore or tank.
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#10 Posted : Monday, 14 September 2015 9:20:20 AM(UTC)
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Tour Director - thanks for that. I always use distilled water to dilute coolant. I will continue to do so.

Regards

Mike
Dr Terry Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 14 September 2015 10:16:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tour Director Go to Quoted Post
One thing to consider is the water you put into the cooling system. Some time ago CPC (who make radiator caps) had an issue with a customer continually destroying radiator caps. It turns out he was using water from a bore or tank.


I would have thought that tank water would be ideal, being rain water.

Bore water can cause dramas because it is usually very alkaline, but rain water should be great.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
EHPHTB Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, 16 September 2015 8:29:18 PM(UTC)
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Gents,

Thank you for all replies.

I pulled all the plugs and they looked as good as plugs could.

I then opted to take it to the local radiator shop who charged me a reasonable price to add a chemical flush (Tectaloy Muckout), drain, flush and fill with coolant.

The guys said that although the existing coolant looked ok, there was heaps of rust present on the initial drain.

If I detect any further gunk I will report back here, but in the absence of a further post, it can be assumed you guys were correct and my problems are solved.

Thanks and regards,

Mick.
johnperth Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, 16 September 2015 10:32:05 PM(UTC)
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my daughters astra had similar problem, oil in water but no water in oil.
turned out there are small oil galleries running through the head, one of these corroded or got damaged allowing oil into the water. there is nothing can be done to repair as galleries are inside the head and cannot be accessed so head needed replacing.
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#14 Posted : Thursday, 17 September 2015 6:01:48 AM(UTC)
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Alloy head on the Astra John. Ecotec is still the tough old cast iron, and doesn't suffer the same issues as alloy.
Cheers,

Mick
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