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Gerard Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 19 February 2016 11:35:01 PM(UTC)
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Put the handbrake cable and equaliser arm back in the car. I didn't take any photos before removal and now finding it a bit confusing as to where the return spring connects to the body. I was pretty sure it went to the large or small hole in the floor channel on the front r.h. side under floor area, but to connect it to either of these holes the return spring would need to be stretched approximately 2/3 to 3/4 of its original length. It seems too far to stretch it to either of these holes. The hole where the return spring has been in the arm has wear from the spring being attached to the right hand side of the car, the direction of these holes on the right
I can't locate any clear photos of this from Holden manuals I have and these manuals don't show diagrams for a HK Monaro v8 4 speed.
I have seen some internet photos of these cars where the return spring is in a hole located to the r.h. side of the equaliser arm, but this hole is not drilled there on the equaliser arm from my car. I have also have seen the return spring connecting somewhere near to the l.h. front seat inner mounting bolt area? I am wondering if there was a heavy gauge wire link spacer of some kind that I have lost? Any other suggestions on this would be appreciated
Ausjacko Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 8:29:22 AM(UTC)
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These are of a HT is it helps. Can't imagine they are much different.




gm5735 Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 9:29:39 AM(UTC)
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Gerard,
I assume you've seen the Fig 5.7, on page 5.9 of the HK shop manual? If so, ignore it completely as it doesn't match what really happens on the 4 speed V8 cars.
Is it possible you've mixed up the clutch return spring and the handbrake spring? I've managed this myself in the past.
For your car, one end of the spring is located on a right angle bracket which is for gearshift reinforcement. The other end is connected to the pull lever, but not where the drawing shows, as the pull lever is different for v8 manual cars.

If you check Nicks photo in the thread "HK327 tailshaft colour" you will see some good detail of the spring location.
Gerard Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 12:25:14 PM(UTC)
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Ausjacko, thanks for the reply and photos. Had another good look at this area and the hole as per your photo is there. Don't know how I missed it, maybe picturing a HG I had with a 6 cyc manual and then a v8 powerglide in it. Think I always connected the return spring to the large hole in the floor channel on this car.

Geoff, I checked the photos of this in the red Monaro and as best as I can see from this photo it looks like it is connected to the angle iron bracket for the gear shift reinforcement as you said. I note that the other end of this spring is looped through the trunnion pin, whereas on my car there is a hole further to the right on the equaliser arm. There is no hole in the angle iron bracket on my car. I can't tell from Ausjacko's photo if the spring connects to the arm on his is car.



gm5735 Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 3:27:11 PM(UTC)
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Interesting. Ausjackos car is a HT. Mine has the same arrangement, with the spring from seat nut plate to a hole in the pull lever, which seems to be where yours has been.
I wonder if you've suffered the dreaded hydrogen embrittlement in your spring when it was plated. It tends to increase the spring rate at the expense of making it more brittle, particularly with higher carbon content steel, like that found in a spring. Such things should be baked immediately after plating to avoid it.
How did you go with the brake and fuel line clips along the inner sill - break them getting them out, did we?
Gerard Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 6:23:40 PM(UTC)
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Geoff, thanks for your reply. The hole in the seat bracket is the correct place for the spring on this car. Noticed that the spring tang has elongated it towards the front of the car.
I have read some articles on the embrittlement process but was't aware of the baking requirement which is a pity as I have now plated many of the nuts, bolts, brackets, small springs etc. from this car.
The brake and fuel line clips are hard to remove and save. Thought they would be reasonably easy to buy later. I did get one of these clips from another area out ok (single pipe only) I have checked the rare spares site but I haven't been able to locate these clips there (HQ are there but not HK - HG?) Also looking for the two clips that hold the pipes for the front brakes. These two clips attach to the subframe rails. All of these seem scarce.
Ausjacko Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 9:44:06 PM(UTC)
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My lever is exactly as per your photo. The spring is is fairly distinctive as it has one end longer than the other and the hooks (?) are at 90deg to each other; enabling it to insert into the lever facing down and the floor facing up.

Your post prompted me to find the spring and I could not understand why I had it secured to the clutch fork- got my springs confused.
Cheers
Jacko
gm5735 Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 20 February 2016 10:07:50 PM(UTC)
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Quote:

Your post prompted me to find the spring and I could not understand why I had it secured to the clutch fork- got my springs confused.

Ah ha. Easy done isn't it?
gm5735 Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 21 February 2016 12:32:19 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
The brake and fuel line clips are hard to remove and save. Thought they would be reasonably easy to buy later. I did get one of these clips from another area out ok (single pipe only) I have checked the rare spares site but I haven't been able to locate these clips there (HQ are there but not HK - HG?) Also looking for the two clips that hold the pipes for the front brakes. These two clips attach to the subframe rails. All of these seem scarce.


They are all fairly difficult to find, as they get broken when removed.
The 3/16 + 5/16" double ended clips on the inner sill, which hold the fuel and brake lines, are SP1410, which seem to be only HK-HG, and LC + LJ Torana.

The single 3/16" clip, which is the same as SP1410 with one end missing, and holds the brake line to the subframe is also used to hold the bonnet cable. It is SP1836, and is also used on HQ.

I haven't seen an acceptable, or indeed any, reproduction of either of these. I was looking at doing some dies for a low volume reproduction of SP1410/SP1836.

Were they the ones you were chasing?
Tour Director Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 21 February 2016 9:06:41 AM(UTC)
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Rare Spares have been looking at the pipe clips and discussing with a manufacturer. They seem unique to Australia as USA suppliers don't have the size we require. Testing of some US clips show they actually cut into the pipe.
Gerard Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 12:07:06 AM(UTC)
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Geoff the clips I need most, are the single ended ones for the front brake pipes. I don't recall seeing a clip like these, on the bonnet cable for my car.
I have seen a clip similiar to the original double pipe clip for the inner sill fuel & brake pipes. It is possibly has a more open look to the main body and there is one much the same in my dismantling photos, it is located where the fuel & brake pipes come from below to engine bay (a bit below & to the right of the power booster) Photo attached.
I will use the existing inner sill clips on a temp basis for now with a washer and screw and see what the progress is with Rare Spares for this part.

gm5735 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 10:01:35 AM(UTC)
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Gerard,
SP1836 is the one used to secure the bonnet cable. It is in a different location to the picture below on most HKs, and was moved in later HKs and HT and HG, as it rubs the bonnet. It is also listed as one of the clips used to secure the brake pipe to the frame.

Here's the famous clip, on a famous car:





The inner sill clip is SP1410




There are a few other clips listed, and I'm working on identifying them.

Edited by user Monday, 22 February 2016 10:13:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ausjacko Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 11:43:41 AM(UTC)
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Here is the clip on the drivers side sill



There is another clip not too far forward of this one that holds both pipes together but not to the body; another clip holds one pipe (fuel) to the rail

Edited by user Monday, 22 February 2016 11:44:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: clumsy typing

Ausjacko Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 11:51:00 AM(UTC)
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A little off topic but...

In the photo marked #9, the clutch master cylinder has an adapter nut between the cylinder and the pipe nut on the hose. Having just purchased two of these adapter nuts this morning (PBR part MC54 7/16 20 male and 7/16 24 female) can anyone explain why GM did not just use the correct pipe /tube nut to mate to the slave and master cylinders directly in the first place?

I only just realised I needed the adapter as the PO made his own pipe using copper bundy tube and the correct pipe nuts.
Cheers
Jacko
Gerard Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 5:13:45 PM(UTC)
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Geoff
I remember that clip now, hope I can find it as I don't remember braking it when it was removed.
Good shot of the Monaro, can you post some more? We're any of the original HT 350 Monaros finished with that colour grille or is this an owners preference of that era? I see a section of another car to the right hand side of the Monaro, looks like it may be an Isuzu Bellett (G.T.)?
I will post some additional photos of the clips I have later, they may be of interest.
gm5735 Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 9:55:39 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
...can anyone explain why GM did not just use the correct pipe /tube nut to mate to the slave and master cylinders directly in the first place?


I'm not privy to their thinking, but an aluminium casting would not be strong enough to be machined directly for the pipe olive, a steel insert would be a bad idea for galvanic corrosion reasons, so it seems to me that it is much easier to put the olive for the flared pipe end in a brass fitting rather than in a soft aluminium casting.

It's the same story on the slave cylinder.

 1 user thanked gm5735 for this useful post.
Ausjacko on 24/02/2016(UTC)
gm5735 Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 22 February 2016 10:12:21 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
We're any of the original HT 350 Monaros finished with that colour grille or is this an owners preference of that era?


That one was definitely the owners preference, as the owner was Holden Dealer Team. That is the first car done by HDT for homologation purposes. It ran at Sandown in the Datsun 3 hour on 14/9/1969 driven by Spencer Martin and Kevin Bartlett as car 57D. It went into a fence backwards and caught fire. It is also the car referred to in another recent post tested by Bill Tuckey in a Wheels article vs an A9X, and shown in Torque with Peter Wherrett providing an inaccurate commentary.

That photo was taken at the Philip Island historic meeting last year. I'll see if I can find some more shots.

Yes, good eyes, it is indeed a Isuzu Bellet, but a 4 door, so not a GT. (And an XW GT with an interesting history on the other side)

Edited by user Monday, 22 February 2016 10:24:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

hk350 Offline
#18 Posted : Wednesday, 24 February 2016 3:31:23 PM(UTC)
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How many of the SP1410 clips are used on a HK 307? Is it just the 2? I'd be interested in buying a couple if they get reproduced. Also i've found that Rare Spares do a clip very similar to the brake/fuel one found under the booster.
Ausjacko Offline
#19 Posted : Wednesday, 24 February 2016 4:36:26 PM(UTC)
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The clips in our photos are the same. What is the RR ref?
hk350 Offline
#20 Posted : Wednesday, 24 February 2016 11:21:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ausjacko Go to Quoted Post
The clips in our photos are the same. What is the RR ref?


Rares have these clips but list them for HQ: http://www.rarespares.ne...age.aspx?product=RC0006
They're exactly the same as the ones I've found under booster but different to the SP1410
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