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Rusty308 Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 14 March 2016 9:47:29 PM(UTC)
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Hi All,

This is my first post regarding my Hj Statesman 308. The motor has 140,000 original Ks on the clock which I have records for the past 40 yrs.
I would like to upgrade heads, manifold, new pipes and overhaul Carby and still keep original bottom end / cam. How far could / should I go with modifying heads / manifold to give her a little more HP when needed and approx at what cost. The Turbo 400 and Salisbury 10 Bolt will remain standard.

I would value any feedback and recommendations.
Cheers
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 15 March 2016 6:53:07 AM(UTC)
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There is probably no point touching the heads much unless you upgrade the cam and valve springs. HJ manifold is essentially as good as an Edelbrock Performer. I'd do your pipes, get the carb overhauled and fit HEI ignition. You'll get some benefit from the heads - talk to Perfectune, but also think about the cam. I'd fit a new oil pump too. You can get the condition of the rings checked too to make sure the bottom end is sound.
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
Devo Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 15 March 2016 7:11:24 PM(UTC)
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I have a similar question close enough to tack on to this thread. Sorry but I think it's worth adding......


If I wanted to build a 308 for a HT but wanted it 100% cosmetically correct with the following
Factory air cleaner
Factory Rochester
Factory inlet and exhaust manifolds
Factory heads
Aftermarket electronic ignition( points can get stuffed)

Is it worth doing "anything" to the engine internals to pick power up a little and if so what ????

HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 16 March 2016 3:55:47 PM(UTC)
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L34 spec heads, bigger cam, higher compression. Basically what an L34 is other than the exhaust.
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
Devo Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 16 March 2016 8:27:12 PM(UTC)
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Cheers

Not after bulk power but a little bit should help it chug along.
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 6:47:09 AM(UTC)
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Back when Street Machine was worth reading they did a series called Power Games where they play with a 308 from stock to heavily modified, all on a dyno. Worth reading if you can get them.
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
Dr Terry Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 6:57:30 AM(UTC)
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I'd take a leaf of the VC Brock/HDT book & spend the money on heads, port the inlet manifold & blueprint the carb & dissy.

Leave the camshaft & exhaust manifolds stock. That way it will look authentic & idle smoothly.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 11:48:12 AM(UTC)
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Dr Terry is right, the VH-VK V5H 308 is essentially L34 in nature, although the HJ through to VL engine has a bigger cam than the standard L34. The biggest advantage of the L34 is its 10.8:1 compression and stronger rods (V5H 308 only had about 9.2:1). You can get some VK A9L onwards rods for a bit more strength or just get new rod bolts for your existing rods.
If it was me i'd do this:
Perfectune modded heads (if they still do them).
Higher comp pistons, flat tops if you use big valve heads with the chambers opened up a bit).
VN onwards rods (cheap) with new bolts.
Standard HJ on cam grind or maybe slighly bigger with a fraction more overlap (quality cam grinders will guide you here).
New timing gears.
New oil pump.
Balance the rotating assembly.
Standard manifold, open up as per L34 or V5H.
HEI dizzy and coil.
Standard exhaust manifolds with dual exhaust.
Get the Quaddy rebuilt and then tuned properly on a dyno.
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
castellan Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 12:14:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Devo Go to Quoted Post
I have a similar question close enough to tack on to this thread. Sorry but I think it's worth adding......


If I wanted to build a 308 for a HT but wanted it 100% cosmetically correct with the following
Factory air cleaner
Factory Rochester
Factory inlet and exhaust manifolds
Factory heads
Aftermarket electronic ignition( points can get stuffed)

Is it worth doing "anything" to the engine internals to pick power up a little and if so what ????

For stock 308 engines.
I had a HT 308 engine in stock form and then modified it to get the best out of such a thing.

To pick up a bit more power you get the carby jetted for performance this can make a lot of difference, problem is not many mechanic people know how to do this spot on and most will just crack the shits that you mention it, because most do not understand truly how a carby works.
You have to find someone who is interested and tunes race engines to get this set up correctly mainly.

Graph setup of the dizzy correctly as well but exhaust being free flowing is a must do.

The old 308's need free flowing exhaust system, the exhaust manifolds will be fine as it's not such a big deal as some say as you can still make good power with them, sure they are not the best but free flow exhaust is the number one thing.

The old 308's don't need bigger exhaust valves but can go bigger on the intake valves or a little porting touch up in the correct spots and a bit of shaping work on the combustion chamber near the intake valve and the valve head cut to add flow when she just starts to open helps, then it's all down to the cam what you want, as a small modified cam can work wonders and no one would be the wiser as if it was stock or not, but one has to talk to a cam doctor to get what you best want.

Most people go for to big a cam, because they see more HP is the answer, they are blinded by this rubbish because they do not truly understand what power and torque truly are in practice.

I am just on about what one would define as a stock type of engine here and how to improve on that, not on about chasing anything other than that.

I built a 308 that was like stock engine but I wanted it to performed the best that such possibly could.
Now most people just don't understand that concept, to put it in one perspective, I am trying to make my 308 perform like as it was like a 350ci say and as an engine is just an air pump in one way, one can improve on it's efficiency.
I was not looking for a race engine at all.
I wanted what I needed, grunt right off idle and could not sacrifice that at all.

People who drove it said f ! that thing goes ! wondering how could a stock type engine perform like it did.

It had points ignition and fired up instantly and I had people spun out that it did in such a way.
ADR engines do need better electronic setup due to the mixtures they run and the spark timing set up they have to follow due to ADR is not the best, nothing against non points mind but I did not need it and certainty was not crying about it at all.
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
castellan Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 12:55:19 PM(UTC)
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On the cam point some will say that with stock Holden cams that the 308 HJ one is better than the HT-G-Q that's BS why ? because if the intake is the same duration and lift and all timing being the same that's what the engine will swallow that fuel and air, but the HJ on exhaust being longer duration only lowers the compression as to when the engine is running = volume efficiency ? is lost, and this longer exhaust duration is only their to add more heat to burn off unburnt fuel to lower ADR law.
And this is why the 9.0:1 in the HT-G-Q went up to 9.7:1 in the HJ.

Another thing is that wood ducks think compression makes more power, sure it can but if you go too high you will only loose power and create a motor that will not last, because the fuel octane is not high enough for that compression.

I seen many a engine destroyed to such ignorance.

I wonder what compression one could get away with nowadays with a 308 pre ADR27A running on 91 unleaded or E10 maybe one could have to go to 8.5:1 to run 91 or maybe 8.8 on E10 safely and not have to pay the big difference of having to run 95 or 98.

I would hate having to fork out for 95 or 98 fuel in a old 308. that would sting ya !
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, 17 March 2016 2:28:56 PM(UTC)
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Hj onwards cam is bigger and develops more power combined with higher compression only until the end if 308 at the end of '84. After that compression is lower. GMH states in HJ literature that the 308 gets a bigger cam for more power:
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Rusty308 on 22/03/2016(UTC)
Devo Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, 14 April 2016 8:51:12 PM(UTC)
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So looks like I have scored a set of yella terra heads( unsure on specs but apparently significantly better than stock)

I'm thinking
standard bottom end but rebuilt with quality bits.
Slight cam ( happy with a slight lump)
Terra heads( freshened up)
Standard inlet manifold
Standard headers
Rebuilt Rochester tuned to engine.
Regraphed dizzy
2,200 aproximate stall
2.25 dual exhaust

If the above package works I should end up with a cosmetically stock engine but with a bit of luck to push it along a bit better than standard.

Happy with that.
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 7:03:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Devo Go to Quoted Post
So looks like I have scored a set of yella terra heads( unsure on specs but apparently significantly better than stock)

I'm thinking
standard bottom end but rebuilt with quality bits.
Slight cam ( happy with a slight lump)
Terra heads( freshened up)
Standard inlet manifold
Standard headers
Rebuilt Rochester tuned to engine.
Regraphed dizzy
2,200 aproximate stall
2.25 dual exhaust

If the above package works I should end up with a cosmetically stock engine but with a bit of luck to push it along a bit better than standard.

Happy with that.


Sounds good. Get the heads rebuilt first and get them cc'd to check chamber size and buy pistons to suit. I can give you stock chamber sizes and HJ-HZ piston dish which gives 9.7:1 so you can work from there by substituting numbers to get a close idea of compression. Grab yourself a flogged out VN V8 bottom end for rods.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Devo Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 7:39:11 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the info.
It may only be a basic build but if done right it should be a punchy little engine.

Well that's the plan anyway.
HK1837 Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 8:06:33 AM(UTC)
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It won't feel punchy though if you leave the original 2.78:1 Salisbury, the 2500 stall will help a bit but it'll still be slow. A change to 3.36:1 gears and hemi would be better, but if you aren't happy with the 2.78 once done you can easily do that later.

While the engine is out pull the TH400 out and get it serviced. Put new converter, dipstick tube seals and the 2 x seals on the speedo in whilst its out. Some of those seals aren't easy to get either. The only places I found them for my Premier 2 years ago were either from the USA or at National Transmission Parts in Wallsend. I had to use the original GMH part numbers out of the HQ-HZ parts catalogues to locate them though.
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Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 8:46:10 AM(UTC)
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Personally I'd stick to the stock camshaft, to retain as much low-down torque as you can & forget the hi-stall converter. Your fuel economy will benefit enormously. GM-H already used the smaller TH350 converter behind the 308 with a TH400. As a matter of fact, you could benefit from a change to a TH350 or Tri-matic anyway.

As I said earlier, follow what HDT did with their VC version. L34 style heads & ported manifold, stock cam, headers & transmission, blueprinted carby & distributor, larger exhaust. I'd use a 3.08 rear axle unless you're driving freeways regularly.

Dr Terry

Edited by user Friday, 15 April 2016 9:50:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
Devo Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 1:44:53 PM(UTC)
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Sorry guys I probably confused you by hijacking OPs thread......
My car is a HT Monaro 3:36 Salisbury diff and Two speed powerglide.

Mainly after low down grunt and half decent performance up to 100.
Won't do much highway stuff. Maybe 1/2 hour trip on the highway occasionally. The rest will be town driving.

Cheers
HK1837 Offline
#18 Posted : Friday, 15 April 2016 2:14:44 PM(UTC)
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Sorry, I got confused - I didn't look at who posted, and assumed we were talking about a HJ Statesman with TH400. But I'm all good now. Same stuff for the engine applies as both Dr Terry and I have said, just ignore the reference to the diff ratio.
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