It's probably longer ago than you would think.

When I had my workshop on the Parramatta Rd "used car strip' back in the late 70s, there were a few dealers specialising in Aussie Muscle cars. I clearly remember in 1977 one yard, only 4 doors up, used to sell ex-Bathurst race cars (XU1s, L34s, XA/B Fords etc.) & advertised them as "Genuine Aussie Muscle Cars". Even earlier than that Geoghegans Sporty Cars at Haberfield regularly advertised 60s Mustangs & Camaros etc. as Muscle cars.

I can't answer your question re: when a 'Supercar' became a Muscle car, though.

Dr Terry

Hey Charger.

I reckon that you guys are taking this too seriously.

Yes, it's good to have a strict definition & I realise exactly what that is, but even in the USA the debate rages as when did get 'officially defined' & what 'indeed' the first muscle car is. Many say it was the original Pontiac GTO, others say it goes back much further to the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It depends on their definition & they seem to be many & varied.

To me it's not a lot different to many other car descriptors, like 'super car', 'performance street car', 'street machine', 'hotrod', 'street rod' & so on.

The muscle car tag was commonplace in the 70s before we knew that there was a 'definition' as such.

If want another robust discussion, listen to the Pommies trying to define exactly what is a 'sports car'.

Dr Terry

I still reckon the HK GTS327 and the HT-HG GTS350 manual fit into the acceptable US definition of a muscle car - if a Chevelle SS or a Mach1 Mustang qualifies then these would. And I reckon the E55 Charger and the XA GT RPO83 coupes would too.
I get our cars are very different though and built for different reasons and thus you can't apply the US term over here or you have the silly situation that GT-HO's, XU1, E38/49 and L34 aren't included in the discussion.

Warren, that link contains some fairly large inaccuracies. Like when the term "Musclecar" first appeared. Refer to the article below, from March 1966.

"Anything small with a large engine" was the definition used in that article. In the US "Anything small" meant compacts with overall lengths of around 200 inches. HKTG are around 185 inches overall (except the Brougham, at about 192 inches, and I'm not saying that qualifies).

By that definition it could be argued that only models that differed by a bigger engine qualified. Which means that only GTS327 and GTS350 are eligible.
That should upset a few people.

Edited by user Monday, 3 August 2015 12:43:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Interesting thread...

I bought my XYGTHO in 1984 from a caryard called "Super Carz" in Brisbane on Bowen Bridge Rd. Herston. From memory as you came down past the Ekka and crossed Enoggera Creek it was on the right side just after the creek. There was also another caryard in the Gabba just past the PA hospital, I think it was on the corner of Ipswich Rd and Old Cleveland Rd that advertised it sold "super cars" until the late 80's.

For those that remember the "HQ for you" give away by Street Machine mag, that HQ ended up at Supercarz caryard.

A Muscle car is a low cost, high performance option of a regular production car.....

Warren states the GTS 327 and 350 were expensive... yes they were compared to lower performance GTS cars but not compared to luxury models such as Premier, Brougham and the later Statesman with the same engine options.... same goes for GT and GTHO Falcon as compared to Fairmont, Fairlane and later Marquis and LTD.

Muscle cars were generally high performance engines or vehicle packages fitted to base models.

Australian muscle cars.... GTHO optioned Falcon and GTS 327 and 350 optioned Kingswood spec Monaro fits in with the low cost performance car. 350 LS Monaro would not. L34 and A9X also fall in this category...

One could also argue that GT Falcon, Torana SS and SLR with 5.0 litre engine could also qualify. At a push, Sandman with the 5.0 litre engine may also be a contender as it was a high performance version of a base model Belmont panelvan and ute.

Unfortunately I don't think XU1 or R/T Charger qualify being 6 cylinder engines.

Warren, are those prices based on a Brougham with the same engine size as GTS Monaro. I didn't realise they were that expensive.

Falcon GT did have Fairmont style interior but it was still a Falcon. Not really any different than Pontiac Firebird 400 which had luxury level interior.

Can't really compare Australian cars to American cars anyway, we had smaller engines overall and far smaller build numbers for a far smaller population... our cars have always been far more expensive than US cars and the smaller build numbers of our "muscle cars" and having to import the 327 and 350 engines from the US doesn't help.

HQ Sandman was based on Belmont and Kingswood, HJ Sandman was based on Holden and Kingswood, HX/HZ Sandman was based on Kingswood. HX GTS was more Premier based than Kingswood.

An American muscle car is generally a small to mid sized base model car with the biggest V8 engine available shoehorned into the engine bay, call it a GTO or SS, improve suspension and call it a HO and add some sporty bits to it.... Had Holden put a 350 in the HQ SS instead of the piddly 253 it would have been a genuine Aussie muscle car.

Biggest engine available, sporty bits, low luxury level production car = muscle car..... considered high performance due to the big arse engine.

By American standards (loosely).... A HQ 350 4sp optioned Kingswood is not a muscle car but a HQ 350 4sp GTS Monaro is.

I don't think the U.S. definition suits Australian cars. Our cars were built to suit circuit racing and so the requirements were no doubt different to US cars built to drag race mostly......
Hence a VK Brock built in limited numbers to homologate or a A9X for the same reason. They were built to become race cars and it was our laws that stopped the big engines, not the manufacturers.
Ours were more like the Hertz Shelby Cobras, than say a Dodge built to drag race.
All were built to race. Surely that's what constitutes a muscle car here. Australian Muscle Cars/super cars. Not the U.S. Definition??

TA Torana boy that was a weapon, big 1759cc OHC engine in them and cheaper than the big 1900 LH 4 cyl Torana not to mention the Plus 4 is a sporty car.