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SLENUT Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 3:15:25 PM(UTC)
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Hello all
Recently I have been reading from the wrong place, Facebook, from many saying that the Holden V8 is based from an Oldsmobile V8 from the late 50s.

I haven't heard anything or even read anything from books about that, only the dribble from facebook. So what's the story?

I believe Fred James designed locally the Holden V8.
The Commodore SL/E fanatic.
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 3:27:59 PM(UTC)
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It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs.
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Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 3:39:48 PM(UTC)
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AKAIK, that is correct, even the Holden Red 6-cyl was penned in Detroit.

The V8 was a clean sheet design & all done in Australia. It doesn't really resemble any other GM V8 in any detail.

I believe that the only US bits used are the hydraulic lifters & the Q-Jet carby.

Dr Terry
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HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 5:09:56 PM(UTC)
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I think even the lifters are different Terry, at least to a SBC. They have more travel in them (0.2305") to allow for the fixed rocker gear. They may well be from another US vehicle though, they were made by Frigidaire. They have an Australian (74) part number though.

A few other parts are US sourced (going by the part numbers at least):

Valve springs.
Valve stem seals.
Rear main seal.
Camshaft plugs.
Conrod nuts.
Fan.
Water pump seal.
Thermostat.
PCV valve clamp.


Plus maybe a few more bits and pieces - bugger all though in the scheme of things and exactly what you'd expect, ie use already designed bits wherever possible.
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SLENUT Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 6:07:33 PM(UTC)
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Thanks gentlemen. I won't try to correct anyone on facebook cause, others like to think they know more etc, without any evidence.
The Commodore SL/E fanatic.
anonymous Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 8:54:30 PM(UTC)
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Have you read through Holden V8 Engine Report http://www.hrc.org.au/im...Holden%20V8%20report.pdf
castellan Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 9:27:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SLENUT Go to Quoted Post
Hello all
Recently I have been reading from the wrong place, Facebook, from many saying that the Holden V8 is based from an Oldsmobile V8 from the late 50s.

I haven't heard anything or even read anything from books about that, only the dribble from facebook. So what's the story?

I believe Fred James designed locally the Holden V8.


Fred James was the top man at Holden dealing with the call on the design but without GM in the USA we had no hope of truly all the makings of an engine at all.
The casting work and all the tooling was made in the USA and then it was all shipped to Australia.

The V8 Oldsmobile engine ? they must be on about would be a balls up some how, maybe due to rover V8 engine or the early Brabham race engine being mistaken for the Holden Repco formula 5000 race engine.
castellan Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 14 June 2016 9:52:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs.


On the so called Cleveland V8 all the USA engines, be it Chrysler Ford or any GM are all sent to same one company who does build and work on all the setting up of the castings and tooling and then when they get it all sorted they then hand it all over to the car company's, the car company's have a design of what they want, but it's up to this company to make it all work.
So the Cleveland looks much like the Ford big block to save money mainly, but as with car body designs you can see as the years go on the same type of designs are used in all cars of the same area. the latest trends are used regardless.
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#9 Posted : Wednesday, 15 June 2016 8:26:54 AM(UTC)
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Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."

Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....

Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut.
HK1837 Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 15 June 2016 8:39:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs.


On the so called Cleveland V8 all the USA engines, be it Chrysler Ford or any GM are all sent to same one company who does build and work on all the setting up of the castings and tooling and then when they get it all sorted they then hand it all over to the car company's, the car company's have a design of what they want, but it's up to this company to make it all work.
So the Cleveland looks much like the Ford big block to save money mainly, but as with car body designs you can see as the years go on the same type of designs are used in all cars of the same area. the latest trends are used regardless.


The Cleveland is an orphan in Ford. It was very much copied off the BBC. Bunkie Knudsen was recruited from Vice President at GM to become Ford's President. He bought GM Engineers with him, and is credited (or criticised by some) for the larger 1971 Mustang and the Cleveland design, his Engineers essentially used the BBC as a model for the Cleveland. You'll find this all through US Ford literature. When he and his recruits left the Cleveland was shuffled off to Australia.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, 15 June 2016 12:59:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: griffo Go to Quoted Post
Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."

Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....

Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut.


The USA engines were not suited to our size cars to heavy and out dated, the dizzy is great at the back like that as water does not hit it directly and it's easy to do up the bolt with the correct tools.
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griffo on 17/06/2016(UTC)
griffo Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, 17 June 2016 6:09:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: griffo Go to Quoted Post
Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."

Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....

Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut.


The USA engines were not suited to our size cars to heavy and out dated, the dizzy is great at the back like that as water does not hit it directly and it's easy to do up the bolt with the correct tools.



Thank for that info....All you say makes sense of course...I have a cut off ring spanner welded to a small tyre lever for that particular job...Just a tad difficult changing points etc for the sort fellas...lol.
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