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Hello all
Recently I have been reading from the wrong place, Facebook, from many saying that the Holden V8 is based from an Oldsmobile V8 from the late 50s.
I haven't heard anything or even read anything from books about that, only the dribble from facebook. So what's the story?
I believe Fred James designed locally the Holden V8. |
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It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs. |
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AKAIK, that is correct, even the Holden Red 6-cyl was penned in Detroit.
The V8 was a clean sheet design & all done in Australia. It doesn't really resemble any other GM V8 in any detail.
I believe that the only US bits used are the hydraulic lifters & the Q-Jet carby.
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I think even the lifters are different Terry, at least to a SBC. They have more travel in them (0.2305") to allow for the fixed rocker gear. They may well be from another US vehicle though, they were made by Frigidaire. They have an Australian (74) part number though.
A few other parts are US sourced (going by the part numbers at least):
Valve springs.
Valve stem seals.
Rear main seal.
Camshaft plugs.
Conrod nuts.
Fan.
Water pump seal.
Thermostat.
PCV valve clamp.
Plus maybe a few more bits and pieces - bugger all though in the scheme of things and exactly what you'd expect, ie use already designed bits wherever possible. |
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Thanks gentlemen. I won't try to correct anyone on facebook cause, others like to think they know more etc, without any evidence. |
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Originally Posted by: SLENUT  Hello all
Recently I have been reading from the wrong place, Facebook, from many saying that the Holden V8 is based from an Oldsmobile V8 from the late 50s.
I haven't heard anything or even read anything from books about that, only the dribble from facebook. So what's the story?
I believe Fred James designed locally the Holden V8. Fred James was the top man at Holden dealing with the call on the design but without GM in the USA we had no hope of truly all the makings of an engine at all. The casting work and all the tooling was made in the USA and then it was all shipped to Australia. The V8 Oldsmobile engine ? they must be on about would be a balls up some how, maybe due to rover V8 engine or the early Brabham race engine being mistaken for the Holden Repco formula 5000 race engine.
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs. On the so called Cleveland V8 all the USA engines, be it Chrysler Ford or any GM are all sent to same one company who does build and work on all the setting up of the castings and tooling and then when they get it all sorted they then hand it all over to the car company's, the car company's have a design of what they want, but it's up to this company to make it all work. So the Cleveland looks much like the Ford big block to save money mainly, but as with car body designs you can see as the years go on the same type of designs are used in all cars of the same area. the latest trends are used regardless.
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Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."
Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....
Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut.
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Originally Posted by: castellan Originally Posted by: HK1837 It is a local design, but as we know most of them are rarely virgin designs, they are normally based upon existing designs. For example the Cleveland was designed using a lot of BBC ideas as it was designed and influenced by ex GM people. The Holden V8 shares SBC bore spacings from memory, and its design was constrained by the desire for it to be fitted to the vehicle by body drop, and to be fitted to a number of totally different vehicle platforms which dictated the oil pump go where it is. As far as I know though it is as close to a clean-sheet engine design as we ever got in this country. I think I'm right in saying the GMH V8 is the only locally designed and built engine used in a volume constructed Australian car. All the rest are far more heavily based upon overseas designs. On the so called Cleveland V8 all the USA engines, be it Chrysler Ford or any GM are all sent to same one company who does build and work on all the setting up of the castings and tooling and then when they get it all sorted they then hand it all over to the car company's, the car company's have a design of what they want, but it's up to this company to make it all work. So the Cleveland looks much like the Ford big block to save money mainly, but as with car body designs you can see as the years go on the same type of designs are used in all cars of the same area. the latest trends are used regardless. The Cleveland is an orphan in Ford. It was very much copied off the BBC. Bunkie Knudsen was recruited from Vice President at GM to become Ford's President. He bought GM Engineers with him, and is credited (or criticised by some) for the larger 1971 Mustang and the Cleveland design, his Engineers essentially used the BBC as a model for the Cleveland. You'll find this all through US Ford literature. When he and his recruits left the Cleveland was shuffled off to Australia. |
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Originally Posted by: griffo Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."
Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....
Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut. The USA engines were not suited to our size cars to heavy and out dated, the dizzy is great at the back like that as water does not hit it directly and it's easy to do up the bolt with the correct tools.
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 1 user thanked castellan for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: castellan Originally Posted by: griffo Very interesting read Gentlemen...I noted the whist reading the Holden report posted by anonymous that " 3.6: The product cost had such to make the engines a attractive buy in a limited economy, at the same time provide a reasonable return on investment."
Seeing that I thought...So why not just copy a already available engine with a redesign of the oil pump location to suit right hand drive?....
Not sure why but I was always led to believe the Aussie V8 was from the Pontiac engine design ...esp with that crazy location of distributor and lock bolt/nut. The USA engines were not suited to our size cars to heavy and out dated, the dizzy is great at the back like that as water does not hit it directly and it's easy to do up the bolt with the correct tools. Thank for that info....All you say makes sense of course...I have a cut off ring spanner welded to a small tyre lever for that particular job...Just a tad difficult changing points etc for the sort fellas...lol.
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