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Enquiring on behalf of a fella if anyone can shed light on when this 253 block was cast. Does not have 253 cast into the side of the block. Seems very early with engine number 253H1065.  Edited by user Tuesday, 26 July 2016 7:43:02 PM(UTC)
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Looks like J48 which is 4/9/68. It is the 65th 253 or 308 completed. Does it have a crank? Can you get a photo of both the engine # and the front of the crank if it is there? |
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Need the front of the crank, as in taken from the front showing the casting (or forging) parting line. IS that G198 on the crank? Do you have a picture of its engine number? |
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Yes G198 on crank. I tried to get a front view of the crank but the owner didn't quiet understand what I was on about. Unfortunately the owner doesn't know the history of the motor.     |
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It is cast 11 days prior to the first Holden V8 being started. It was a big event.
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HGV8 I had a E189 HP 308 block it had been decked and had a QLD police number so I could not tell what the 308H**** was.
The crank had HP cast on it and the texture of the casting was sharp to feel where the HQ 308 was smooth like to feel, I believe that that early HP crank was of a higher nodular content as when I taped it with a hammer from the top she rang much like a steel crank does, normal Holden V8 cast cranks don't ring at all.
Ford Cleveland Boss 351 and H.O. had high nodular content cranks that rang like that HP 308 one of mine.
The conrods in my HP 308 were sharp feel texture like the crank and had the forge marks ground off by what must of been a belt sander and finished off smooth and totally flat but still sitting proud by 1 to 2mm, normal rod forge marks are not sitting that proud, but the rod bolts were just like the HQ rubbish and the rods were not thicker than a HQ type. The rod caps had Holden cast on them and I think maybe casting numbers, but that was back in 1988 that I had seen it.
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There were forged crankshafts supposedly in some early engines. GMH started work on the Holden V8 back in around 1964-5-ish timeframe and this is why the early 253 was blank and 308 had HP (same as 149 and 179 of the day), plus they didn't know until late in the piece what ci they were going to be. We think that some crankshafts were forged during development as GMH's nodular plant didn't start until mid 1967. GMH doing what they did must have simply used up all development parts in early production engines. |
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Originally Posted by: HK1837  There were forged crankshafts supposedly in some early engines. GMH started work on the Holden V8 back in around 1964-5-ish timeframe and this is why the early 253 was blank and 308 had HP (same as 149 and 179 of the day), plus they didn't know until late in the piece what ci they were going to be. We think that some crankshafts were forged during development as GMH's nodular plant didn't start until mid 1967. GMH doing what they did must have simply used up all development parts in early production engines. I don't think that any forged cranks were ever made by Holden for the V8 due to money it would of cost. One was made out of wood early in first developing the engine I think.
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Interesting that they would produce forging dies and only use them in development.
Even the Repco developed F5000 variant of the 308 used a nodular iron cast crank, with bigger counterweights, standard stroke and reduced bore.
If there were forging dies available I would have thought they would use them, particularly since GM-H had been using forged crankshafts at least as far back as the early 1940s.
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Remember GMH didn't have a nodular iron foundry until mid 1967. Edited by user Sunday, 14 August 2016 1:22:51 PM(UTC)
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It was the yanks that built the Holden V8 engine.
Aussies had bugger all to do with it, apart from setting the wants of this and that and then GM did it's bit and then they took all that to CWC who does all the real work developing all the castings and fully test the engines are performing to there standard and then they sent everything to GMH Australia to cast and machine everything here and Holden did the final testing here.
If there was a steel crank it would of been made in USA.
The first Aussie testing of the Holden V8 started in 1968.
Holden could not even design a crank and never ever has designed a crank, let alone a block casting and even when they tried to set up for casting alloytec V6 blocks they failed even that costing over 12 million and so then all of the alloytec blocks were imported, but we did cast the alloytec heads in Aus.
One may think to design a crank looks easy, but I am sure there is so much more to it than meets the eye.
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Have a read of this Castellan. It will give you an insight into the Holden V8 development.. http://www.hrc.org.au/im...Holden%20V8%20report.pdf |
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Holden V8 is a local design. GM had bigger all to do with it. It is the only Aussie designed engine from scratch I think. |
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Originally Posted by: castellan It was the yanks that built the Holden V8 engine.
Aussies had bugger all to do with it, apart from setting the wants of this and that and then GM did it's bit and then they took all that to CWC who does all the real work developing all the castings and fully test the engines are performing to there standard and then they sent everything to GMH Australia to cast and machine everything here and Holden did the final testing here.
If there was a steel crank it would of been made in USA.
The first Aussie testing of the Holden V8 started in 1968.
Holden could not even design a crank and never ever has designed a crank, let alone a block casting and even when they tried to set up for casting alloytec V6 blocks they failed even that costing over 12 million and so then all of the alloytec blocks were imported, but we did cast the alloytec heads in Aus.
One may think to design a crank looks easy, but I am sure there is so much more to it than meets the eye. I think Fred James & his team, the guys that designed & built the 253/308 from scratch starting in 1965, would be a little disappointed in that comment. Dr Terry Edited by user Monday, 15 August 2016 7:51:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HGV8 I know all that, but GM never created an engine in the 60's, only one company makes all GM Ford and Chrysler engines in the 60's, they all have what they want down on paper or a wooden set up and CWC are the ones who start the whole reality of getting the castings set up and the machining tooling setup. Australia has never had any ability to make the whole tooling or such a set up ability to make any engine, it was all imported and we went from there casting up and machining using all what the USA gave us. The grey motor and the red 6 and v8 were all USA know how, that made it a reality. Ford XK Falcon 6 cyl all was all USA ability until the X flow and there V8's as well were all USA only, we made the 302c crank but did we design it ? and then maybe the last pillow block type fiddle with the block casting, did we design that ? The Valiant Hemi 6 was USA design and Australia only fiddled with that.
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Originally Posted by: castellan It was the yanks that built the Holden V8 engine.
Aussies had bugger all to do with it, apart from setting the wants of this and that and then GM did it's bit and then they took all that to CWC who does all the real work developing all the castings and fully test the engines are performing to there standard and then they sent everything to GMH Australia to cast and machine everything here and Holden did the final testing here.
If there was a steel crank it would of been made in USA.
The first Aussie testing of the Holden V8 started in 1968.
Holden could not even design a crank and never ever has designed a crank, let alone a block casting and even when they tried to set up for casting alloytec V6 blocks they failed even that costing over 12 million and so then all of the alloytec blocks were imported, but we did cast the alloytec heads in Aus.
One may think to design a crank looks easy, but I am sure there is so much more to it than meets the eye. I think Fred James & his team, the guys that designed & built the 253/308 from scratch starting in 1965, would be a little disappointed in that comment. Dr Terry It would be good if it was true and I wish we could boast it was true, but it can't be so, because there is just so much more to the whole system of getting a engine design off the ground and to the first finished product and then it goes through a hell of a lot of testing. Fred James was who he was and his Aussie team, but they went to the yanks to get it all sorted and truly done and they did not do it all on there own bat. Just the tricks to be able to cast a block so it comes out without imperfections is an art in it's self, the first of the Hemi 6 had problems with air bubbles in the castings until they worked out how to sort that out, the 170 slant 6 had problems oil consumption problems until they worked out how to fix that. Look at all the problems with the LS1 they had until they got that sorted. Once they have a good casting setup you still have a % of rejections, the Ford V8 Cleveland block reject rate was 3% that had to be scraped, company's can not afford to bugger about with such troublesome things.
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Another interesting read fellas....Thx
So what issues did they have with the LS1 ?
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