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Chuck Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:58:11 PM(UTC)
Chuck

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I need help. This project has turned into my worst nightmare.

Cammed and stroked LS1 project has gone pear shaped.

My cars been off the road for 3 years, it's been to 3 mechanical shops and 1 engine builder while it's had all this work done to it.

The car came off the Dyno today and the tuner has said the cam is no good - we need to go smaller... Need your opinion on what it could be/next steps. I suppose I need a second opinion from an expert and I don't have anywhere else to turn to...

The car is an absolute pig down low, wants to stall... Cam doesn't kick in till 4400 is what he told me (vs. claimed 2600)

So far I have re-built, replaced or upgraded everything that is below:

Stroked LS1 to a 383 with Callies 4.000 compstar crank
JE 3.905 Pistons & Scat H beam 6.200 rods
All new bearings, rings, gaskets and bolts
Mellings high volume oil pump
10% under drive harmonic balancer
Double row timing chain
Ported and polished cathedral port heads
All springs, valve locks, lifters and pushrods

Put in a Lunati 287/293 Cam - Links to specs and product overview below:

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 287/293
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 237/243
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .600/.600
LSA/ICL: 113/109
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 2600-7200[/b][/b]

http://www.lunatipower.c...d.aspx?partNumber=60515

Retarded cam at 2 degree as I'm told, and unsure of the comp it's running at..

60 Pound injectors
In Tank fuel pump
Leads and plugs
Water pump
Alternator
Belts and hoses
Radiator
Knock sensors
90 mm throttle (on stock manifold)
OTR intake
4-1 extractors into 2 1/2 inch , high flow cats, and out 2 1/2 inch
Stage 3 auto with trans cooler
3.73 Diff centre
Drive shaft and centre bearing
AP big brake upgrade with 2 piece rotors and braided lines
Strut brace
Engine mounts
Complete front and rear bushes

I have spent so much money on this thing and the cars been gone for ages and now I'm told it's basically un-drivable. I didn't build it to do skids, I built it to go fast.

I'm being advised that I need to get a new cam and do the heads again as well as labour and tune.

Cam is supposed to have rev range from 2600-7000, this thing is a pig, it wants to stall down low, it revs like a scalded cat up high and you need to put your foot on the brake and rev it to get it moving properly...

Can't tell you the final figures, tuner said it kept shifting back into second when he was winding it up on the Dyno, all he could say was that it was higher than 200 kW (car started with 220 kW before rebuild).

I'm desperate... I really need some help with this one...

Anything else you need to know please just give me a shout. Cheers...
castellan Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 26 August 2016 12:08:45 PM(UTC)
castellan

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What's the torque converters stall speed.

The cam is what most people go wrong with, as they go to big for a street car.

I don't know why you would have to redo the heads, maybe they are ported to much.

Looks like he wanted 3rd gear on the Dyno to do the run because in 2ed she starts spinning the wheels a bit or to much.

A bigger cam does not mean more power or a better performance car on the street.

Why did you pick that cam, who said it was the way to go.
I have seen many a engine that someone has built up due to some sort of fantasy based on there own concept of power and it's ended up just a shit box.
A engine built to be a drag car engine is just rubbish on the street or a racing circuit track.

When one starts looking for some real wild street engine, it's best listen to others who have been there and know what's best, or you end up just pissing money up the wall.
 1 user thanked castellan for this useful post.
Chuck on 26/08/2016(UTC)
Chuck Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 26 August 2016 6:51:20 PM(UTC)
Chuck

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Thanks for the reply...

First mechanic basically told me what to get and passed me the combination after a lifter failed.

I'd always wanted to do up a car and I decided to go nuts. He was my best friend for 8 years up until the day I had to collect the car on a tow truck and parts in plastic tubs that filled the tray of a hilux.

This was 12 months after it had been torn down.

The tuner/mechanic got the car and wrote the revised list. Much, much longer. Told me cam was risky and definitely would need a stall converter, advice I didn't take, so have continued with the stock converter as I intended on doing all that when I blew the gearbox that has 240 K on it (inevitable reality with what I was aiming for).

By the time it got to the engine builder everything from water pumps, radiators, and oil covered alternators was truly stuffed... In hindsight not necessarily a bad thing that all of this was replaced up front.

The tuner got the car after it was installed by mechanic 3 (due to workload, which was where brakes, exhaust, diff, tail shaft was done) and said it needed trans cooler, tyres, injectors, throttle body and fuel pump after first Dyno run... By this stage I was well over budget so towed it home and saved up...

Last few weeks bought everything, got it there and got the bad news yesterday.

I don't want to do skids, not my thing, I just want the car to be fast off the mark, and don't intend on bouncing it off the limiter...

The cars back in my driveway now.

The tuner said go a smaller, VCM cam with less lift... He offered me his tools and to tell me how to strip it down for him to come to mine and dial the new one in... Think he feels bad for me...

Reality is I'm not an expert nor qualified to make decisions on the specs, and with the once bitten twice shy approach am apprehensive to take what any one person says now... That's how I got here in the first place.

He also said this will not need a stall converter and will reduce the strain on the old gearbox.

Was wondering if I should gamble the $1000 bucks for a re-tune or if I just bite the bullet and do what he says...

I also want feedback on cams. With everything that is done, and the fast acceleration I want what would be the best?

To your point if I was to pick what I want this car to be it would be a track car. Nice to have good drag times but not if I have to lift the RPM to 3000 to inch forward at traffic lights...










Dr Terry Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 27 August 2016 8:23:50 AM(UTC)
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I think you know the answer already, the cam is just too big for what you want.

Quote:- "I don't want to do skids, not my thing, I just want the car to be fast off the mark, and don't intend on bouncing it off the limiter... "

This request & a big cam don't belong together.

When I was building engines I found that many owners believed that "the bigger the cam then the more power you got". The fact is you get nothing for free.

Quite often what you gain at the upper RPM band you lose down low, yet that's exactly what you don't what. No amount of $1,000 tunes is going fix an incorrect cam choice.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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Chuck on 27/08/2016(UTC)
Chuck Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 27 August 2016 10:09:43 AM(UTC)
Chuck

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Thanks, mate, for your feedback.

The tuner is a really good bloke but tuning nor engine building is his core business so to your point, was wondering if I gamble the $1000 on a re-tune somewhere else to avoid another saga in the process...

Still now I'm hoping to be told that this combination will work, but over the last few days it's dawning on me that cam kit I was led to believe would deliver my desired outcome was a total waste of money. And I'm going to have to pay for this dearly...

abi Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 28 August 2016 11:56:04 PM(UTC)
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Definitely too big for a stock stall, perhaps a touch too big for a 4,500 or 5,000 RPM stall. Also this cam needs to be installed advanced not retarded, advancing will close the intake valves earlier, building more dynamic compression and so increasing bottom end torque.
I'd suggest a compression test to see if the intake closing is a good match to the static compression. Advance the cam until you see 180 to 200PSI compression readings and fit a small diameter 4,500RPM lock up converter or just go smaller cam.

I have run a 224/230 in a 5.7 LS1 as well as a 231/239 in a 6.2 LS3, both manuals and both would be appalling with a stock converter.

Adrian
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Chuck on 6/09/2016(UTC)
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