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Mka Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 4 October 2016 8:34:26 PM(UTC)
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Just wondering if there are many in Australia. I have a 71 el camino ute (ht) that was built here but exported in parts and assembled in south africe. Just wondering who else has one
Regards noel
Lingus Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 4 October 2016 9:32:03 PM(UTC)
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G'day Noel,

I haven't seen an El Camino here in Perth, but I'm sure there are many more Monaro GTS / Chevrolet SS coupes that have been imported into Australia than there are good ol' South African bakkies.

It's a bit confusing to say the cars were "built here but exported in parts" ... but you're right, Holden exported the bulk of components as CKD kits for assembly / manufacture of complete vehicles in South Africa.

One notable exception to Australian export was the venerable Holden 'red' motor ... South African six-cylinder cars (post-HR series) featured their own locally manufactured Chevrolet engines of either 230ci or 250ci capacity ... can I assume your El Camino still has a Chevy straight six under the bonnet ?
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#3 Posted : Wednesday, 5 October 2016 5:35:55 AM(UTC)
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They had a TH350 behind some of the Chev 6's as well. Not sure if they assembled that in South Africa or it was imported.
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Mka Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 5 October 2016 8:52:01 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for feedback. Mine is a 308 badged and colum auto. Not standard here but a version that was sent.
all original
Lingus Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 6 October 2016 2:12:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mka Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for feedback. Mine is a 308 badged and colum auto. Not standard here but a version that was sent.
all original


Nice combination, Mka ... by any chance, your ute / bakkie wouldn't happen to be painted in a colour resembling Sky Blue ?
castellan Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:19:57 PM(UTC)
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I believe the HR Premier was imported with the 186 and the other HR models only got that rubbish chev 6 that were built in SA. must of handled like a bucket with the big 6 sitting that far forward and saved the best for the top of the line Premier model.

I think if it's named Holden it's a import but I don't know about the lower grade chev powered 6 cyl HR, that maybe the only one called a holden, the rest are all called Chev if they are made in SA and only the Statesman's is a Aussie import that's called a Chev because they were never called a Holden Statesman at the time in Aus because it did not own the name products rights and all and that's why the engine number is 11 at the start of the prefix.

If the Holden HT-G Monaro has our Aussie grill it should be Aussie imported I would think.

The SA built 6 cyl all have B/W diff, not our much loved banjo diff.
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 6 October 2016 4:29:35 PM(UTC)
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For HJ for South Africa:

WM80 had L20 and M15 with 3.55 standard with LD4 (250) M15 3.36 or LD4 M38 3.36 or L31 M41 3.08 optional.

WM60 had LD4 M22 with 3.55 standard and LD4 M38 3.55 or L20 M22 3.55 optional.

WM69 had LD9 (250HO) M15 and 3.23 standard with LD9 M38 an 2.92 optional.

WN35 was LD9 M15 3.23 standard and LD9 M38 2.92 optional.

WN69 was LD9 M38 2.92 standard with M20 3.23 optional.

WS69 was LD9 M38 2.92 standard with L31 M41 2.78 optional.

WT69 was L31 M41 2.78.

The M15, M20 and M22 were aussie 3 and 4spd. M41 is TH400 same as we got here. L20 is 202, L31 is 308. The axle ratios recognisable ie 2.78 (GU7), 3.08 (GU4), 3.36 (GV4) and 3.55 (GV7) are either aussie banjo or aussie built 10-bolt.

LD4, LD9 and 2.92 (GX9) and 3.23 (GU5) are South African assembled items. Not sure if the M38 (TH350) was sent from here or assembled in South Africa.

The unanswered thing in all this is the cars with total GMH driveline, are they CKD or SUP (assembled here and sent over)? XW2 was a special vehicle package code still in HJ called SOUTH AFRICAN VEHICLE PACKAGE but it is across all model codes listed above, and lists GU5, GX9, LD4 and LD9 so no real help. How did the LD4/LD9 and M15, M20 or M22 come together? It would mean a specially made SBC to aussie pattern bellhousing presumably for V8 aussie boxes (with longer input shaft) and would have sat the Chev 6cyl in a weird location in the car as I doubt they'd have moved the gearbox backwards (traditional Chev manual boxes like Saginaw, Muncie, T10 etc have an input shaft length in between aussie 6 and V8 lengths and are the same for 6 and V8).
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Lingus Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, 6 October 2016 10:20:57 PM(UTC)
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Africa has always been a source of curiosity for me regarding Australian car exports.

Prior to 1960, there were many African nations that drove on the left side of the road, based predominantly on those nations being controlled by either the British or the Portuguese ... subsequently, as various nations achieved independence throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s, many of them changed over to driving on the right side of the road.

General Motors South Africa (GMSA) has been operating since 1913, with the exception of the period from 1987 to 2003 when the business operated independently as the Delta Motor Corporation. Located on the south-east coast of South Africa, GMSA has maintained an assembly plant at Port Elizabeth since 1926, producing RHD cars and trucks. GMSA has produced cars of many GM brands (or related brands, such as Isuzu and Suzuki) as well as producing South Africa's own GM brand, the Ranger, from 1968 through to 1973. Port Elizabeth is the only assembly plant to be operated by GM within continental Africa.

From what I've read in the past, GMH's first African exports took place in 1957, but they went north, not south ... to British East Africa (Kenya, Uganda, etc), Yemen, and the Sudan ... as such, these were fully built up exports from Australia. Then, in 1959, GMH carried out a large shipment of FC utilities to GMSA at Port Elizabeth ... these utes were exported from Australia as CKD (completely knocked down) kits.

Looking further ahead, GMH's 1966 Annual Report contains a reference to exports that year to GMSA consisting of 1,680 vehicles shipped in CKD form ... I assume these vehicles were all HR-series Holdens, and for certain I have seen 'official' images from 1966 showing South African build HR Special sedans and wagons, all sporting "186" badges at the rear. However, I am also aware that some HR Specials were built by GMSA featuring the 194ci Chevrolet six-cylinder engine ... perhaps these were built in 1967 or maybe even 1968 ? ... the Chevrolet six was indeed a tight fit in the HR Holden, necessitating the radiator to be shifted forward and a remote 'header tank' fitted for access to the cooling system.

Apart from the HR Special sedans and wagons, the only other "Holden" badged GMSA-built cars for which I've seen photographic proof are the HT-HG Monaro GTS coupes ... and there was perhaps an awkward overlap in 1971 when both the HG-styled Holden Monaro GTS coupe was available at the same time as the newly released HG-styled Chevrolet SS coupe, both offering the choice of either 5 litre (Holden 308ci) or 5.7 litre (Chevrolet 350ci) V8 engines.

Edited by user Thursday, 6 October 2016 11:50:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: grammatical error

HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 7 October 2016 5:21:13 AM(UTC)
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I was only in Africa a month ago. The only country I visited with majority LHD vehicles was Rwanda (being ex French colony). Tanzania, Kenya, South Africa, Botswana, South Africa and Zimbabwe were all RHD. I didn't see any old GMH product anywhere, the oldest thing I saw was a mid 70's VW beetle parked up in someone's front yard. Apart from that an old 120Y wagon, the rest were 1980's. The only reference I saw anywhere to a GMH product was our Safari Landcruiser in Tanzania had a pair of road safety triangles in the back cable tied to the cargo barrier, still in their boxes. On the boxes was a HD Holden sedan. About 2 years ago I saw an old HR ute in the TV series Homeland (show with Claire Danes in it), was set in Pakistan but it was filmed in South Africa.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mka Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 7 October 2016 10:34:38 PM(UTC)
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Im of the belief there was a change of government and ht onwards we assembled in south africe.still curious to know if any elcamino utes around
Regards
Noel

Edited by user Friday, 7 October 2016 10:37:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:22:49 PM(UTC)
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The Chev SS has the 5L badge of the same as our HK ? and the 5.7L badge has what ?
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:53:34 PM(UTC)
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308 and 350. Engines came from Australia. 308 engines were all built prior to the end of HG production in Australia and stockpiled for the SS. They were all the same bodies too, used HG GTS350 manual body shells.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Mka Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, 9 October 2016 8:14:18 PM(UTC)
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For what it is worth mine has 308 badges him I believe are rare he as most would have been 5 litre badges
HK1837 Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, 10 October 2016 6:13:08 AM(UTC)
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I misread your question Castellan, I thought you were asking about what engines not badges.
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castellan Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, 10 October 2016 9:33:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
308 and 350. Engines came from Australia. 308 engines were all built prior to the end of HG production in Australia and stockpiled for the SS. They were all the same bodies too, used HG GTS350 manual body shells.


Engine number from two I have come across is 308H39539 VIN 557992 and 308H34522 VIN 577106
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