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HK1837 Offline
#21 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 5:58:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sandaro Go to Quoted Post
No, but there must be a third, VT Supercharged 6


Correct, there is a 3rd. I forgot about that VP SS. So there is actually 3 x Holden SS that don’t fit the proper SS mould.
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#22 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:29:53 PM(UTC)
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"Proper SS"?

HQ SS standard 253 V8
LX SS standard L6 optional V8

So until Commodore SS was 50/50.

VP and VT also optional V6.

The break the mold with the SS is the LX, its the only 2 door, 3 door if you want to get technical. Also only no V engine. More trivia...

Warren
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HK1837 Offline
#23 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:37:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
"Proper SS"?

HQ SS standard 253 V8
LX SS standard L6 optional V8

So until Commodore SS was 50/50.

VP and VT also optional V6.

The break the mold with the SS is the LX, its the only 2 door, 3 door if you want to get technical. Also only no V engine. More trivia...

Warren


Break the traditional Chevrolet Super Sport mould Warren. This is what the HQ SS was based upon. Typical of US based SS it had upgrades in both appearance and performance, and arguably upgraded tyres too over what was standard on the car it was based upon. Plus SS was not only coupes, it was available originally on sedan, wagon, coupe, convertible later on El Camino and also on pickups.

LX SS isn't the only 2 door SS, VS to VF SS utes are also 2 doors, and the SS wagons are 5 door if a hatch is a 3 door.

Edited by user Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:41:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Warren Turnbull Offline
#24 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:41:51 PM(UTC)
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Q1 29 (HK all (13) HT all V8 except Brougham (11), HG GTS350 (1), HQ 2 statesman, GTS 350 and LS V8(4)) (I do not see how a Canadian Chevrolet engine plant is not a proper Chevrolet engine plant, that would be like saying a Ford Falcon is not a proper Ford because its not built in a Ford USA factory)

Q6 350M40001
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HK1837 Offline
#25 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 7:38:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
Q1 29 (HK all (13) HT all V8 except Brougham (11), HG GTS350 (1), HQ 2 statesman, GTS 350 and LS V8(4)) (I do not see how a Canadian Chevrolet engine plant is not a proper Chevrolet engine plant, that would be like saying a Ford Falcon is not a proper Ford because its not built in a Ford USA factory)

Q6 350M40001


No to both. Will explain why for Q1 later, but clue is similar reason why GenII engines are not “Chevrolet” engines despite being a SBC design.

Q6, no. That is supposed to be the 1st Dandenong HQ 350 engine number, but IIRC early Dandenong 350 engines started with 350A?
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commodorenut Offline
#26 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:19:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: justgm Go to Quoted Post
Part 2 of Q4 .... V7H option pops up on a Commodore model , what is it ? .Mark.

VR HSV Statesman (predecessor to the Grange nameplate).
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Warren Turnbull Offline
#27 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:44:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
"Proper SS"?

HQ SS standard 253 V8
LX SS standard L6 optional V8

So until Commodore SS was 50/50.

VP and VT also optional V6.

The break the mold with the SS is the LX, its the only 2 door, 3 door if you want to get technical. Also only no V engine. More trivia...

Warren


Break the traditional Chevrolet Super Sport mould Warren. This is what the HQ SS was based upon. Typical of US based SS it had upgrades in both appearance and performance, and arguably upgraded tyres too over what was standard on the car it was based upon. Plus SS was not only coupes, it was available originally on sedan, wagon, coupe, convertible later on El Camino and also on pickups.

LX SS isn't the only 2 door SS, VS to VF SS utes are also 2 doors, and the SS wagons are 5 door if a hatch is a 3 door.


You do not mention Chevrolet SS in the question, there are lots of other cars badged SS. Yes Chevrolet SS might be V8 but Datsun Bluebird SS are not. Also you could get a 1967 Chevrolet SS six cylinder, model number 16767.

Forgot about the ute and wagon

Anyway I digress

Back on topic.

Warren
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commodorenut Offline
#28 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:52:48 PM(UTC)
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Although most accept SS to mean "Super Sport" the brochure for the VN SS calls it a Sports Sedan, and either VR or VS the brochure refers to the SS as a "Sports Saloon"
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HK1837 Offline
#29 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:18:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Warren Turnbull Go to Quoted Post
"Proper SS"?

HQ SS standard 253 V8
LX SS standard L6 optional V8

So until Commodore SS was 50/50.

VP and VT also optional V6.

The break the mold with the SS is the LX, its the only 2 door, 3 door if you want to get technical. Also only no V engine. More trivia...

Warren


Break the traditional Chevrolet Super Sport mould Warren. This is what the HQ SS was based upon. Typical of US based SS it had upgrades in both appearance and performance, and arguably upgraded tyres too over what was standard on the car it was based upon. Plus SS was not only coupes, it was available originally on sedan, wagon, coupe, convertible later on El Camino and also on pickups.

LX SS isn't the only 2 door SS, VS to VF SS utes are also 2 doors, and the SS wagons are 5 door if a hatch is a 3 door.


You do not mention Chevrolet SS in the question, there are lots of other cars badged SS. Yes Chevrolet SS might be V8 but Datsun Bluebird SS are not. Also you could get a 1967 Chevrolet SS six cylinder, model number 16767.

Forgot about the ute and wagon

Anyway I digress

Back on topic.

Warren



Fair enough, I thought it would be an obvious link from Chevrolet SS to GMH SS. There were 6cyl SS in the US. The first year of SS in 1961 was a performance upgrade but they did make it appearance only in 1962 on full size. It was mostly performance only on Chevelle, Camaro etc though (I think the Chevelle SS in Canada might have been 6cyl though). The point of the question though was in Australia which GMH SS’s which 3 models out of however many SS there were from HQ through to VF were standard or optional as 6cyl.
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8D11PCH2 Offline
#30 Posted : Tuesday, 10 October 2017 11:01:31 PM(UTC)
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Q6. 1st HQ production eng # Qx 1001
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gm5735 Offline
#31 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:10:28 AM(UTC)
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Q1.
HK81837
HT81837 manual
HT81837 auto
HG81837 manual
HG81837 auto
HQ LS350
HQ GTS350 Coupe
HQ GTS 4 door XW8
HQ Statesman Deville 350
Not sure about HQ Statesman with 350 option.
The HT and HG auto and manual are both 81837, but different engines, and more importantly for the context of this question, different transmission option codes.

Edited by user Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:11:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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wbute Offline
#32 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 5:19:56 AM(UTC)
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Search as I might, I can not find a Datsun Bluebird SS. I am fairly sure they were all SSS.
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HK1837 Offline
#33 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 5:46:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 8D11PCH2 Go to Quoted Post
Q6. 1st HQ production eng # Qx 1001


Very close but what is the x? Take a guess. It was in the 6th production HQ, an 80369 Elizabeth body number 2-A. Front drums, M15 3spd and 3.55 rear axle.

Edited by user Wednesday, 11 October 2017 5:49:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Offline
#34 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 6:12:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gm5735 Go to Quoted Post
Q1.
HK81837
HT81837 manual
HT81837 auto
HG81837 manual
HG81837 auto
HQ LS350
HQ GTS350 Coupe
HQ GTS 4 door XW8
HQ Statesman Deville 350
Not sure about HQ Statesman with 350 option.
The HT and HG auto and manual are both 81837, but different engines, and more importantly for the context of this question, different transmission option codes.


You got 8 of the 9. The last one is obscure, have to think outside the square. The clue is in the first sentence of the question, think about say for example a HK 6cyl Kingswood sedan assembled in say Elizabeth destined for Australian sale. The next car is identical but destined for export to NZ. This means the HK Kingswood sedan is assembled in Australia for use on Australian soil, but it is also assembled for use in NZ and other territories. So what HQ with a 350 fits this bill?

HK81837.
HT81837 (I didn't distinguish between manual and auto as the auto is not a separate special vehicle package and both engines are Tonawanda. HQ81837+M41 isn't a separate model, neither is HT-HG with 81837+M35).
HG81837 (earlier engines identical to HT).
HQ81237.
HQ81837.
HQ80437 XW8.
HQ81469 Deville.
HQ81669 Statesman.

Prior to a date in 1969 McKinnon Industries was a subsidiary of GM, it was not a Chevrolet engine plant. The 2 barrel V8 SBC design engines were built there, but they were not built as Chevrolet engines as McKinnon built those identical engines for Studebaker, Pontiac, Ramsay Marine and Chevrolet (mainly for export territories) amongst others. Thus the 307 in HK is not a Chevrolet engine as such, it was built by a subsidiary of GM - very much like the GenII SBC design engine was built by GM powertrain, not Chevrolet. In 1969 McKinnon became GM Canada St Catharine's and was a full blown part of GM thus HQ engines are far closer to being a Chevrolet engine, although St Catharine's was still not a true Chevrolet engine plant. The only 100% Chevrolet engines were those in HK and HT GTS327/350. The final HK GTS327 engines are not a Chevrolet engines as McKinnon was still a subsidiary. The final HG engines could be seen the same as the HQ engines, however it is not certain that this engine was a real production Chevrolet engine - it may only have been a spare part engine, and would be a spare part for both Chevrolet and Canadian GM L48 vehicles plus whatever else was fitted with this specification engine. However HG GTS350 still is on the list as the rest of the 350 engines were Tonawanda build.

Edited by user Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:17:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Offline
#35 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 6:13:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Search as I might, I can not find a Datsun Bluebird SS. I am fairly sure they were all SSS.


Warren has a point, I wasn't totally clear. GTS is not just Holden here, it is Toyota 86 as well. Same with GT, and it appears on others outside of Ford and Toyota like Ferrari for example.

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8D11PCH2 Offline
#36 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:01:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 8D11PCH2 Go to Quoted Post
Q6. 1st HQ production eng # Qx 1001


Very close but what is the x? Take a guess. It was in the 6th production HQ, an 80369 Elizabeth body number 2-A. Front drums, M15 3spd and 3.55 rear axle.


In light of the drum front brakes and the M15 3spd the engine will most likely be CD1001
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HK1837 Offline
#37 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:04:03 AM(UTC)
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LC did use HQ engines and if the first HQ sequence engine went in an LC it would be CD1001 but not in a HQ!
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justgm Offline
#38 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:13:07 PM(UTC)
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Q1--answer 9 ....would be Chevrolet Statesman 84669 ( the tags I have are 772121-S) Mark.
life is good in "Wine & Holden Marlborough "
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HK1837 Offline
#39 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:49:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: justgm Go to Quoted Post
Q1--answer 9 ....would be Chevrolet Statesman 84669 ( the tags I have are 772121-S) Mark.


That is the one. The Chevrolet 350. Internally the car was an 81469+XU7 but the BODY plate shows 84669 and sales wise it was 84669. Although they were SUP and CKD for export territories and not available on the domestic market, they were "exported" to consulates within Australia and driven on Australian roads.

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8D11PCH2 Offline
#40 Posted : Wednesday, 11 October 2017 4:49:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
LC did use HQ engines and if the first HQ sequence engine went in an LC it would be CD1001 but not in a HQ!


Was pressed for time this morning and meant to type QD1001 but in my rush typed CD1001.d'oh!
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