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HK1837 Online
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 11:18:15 AM(UTC)
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Just a query about something I've never been able to confirm for certain.

Over the years I've seen many HQ-WB that were originally Aussie 4spd and have had the little extra cut in front of the hole in the tunnel with a small plate over it held by two screws. In all HQ-WB parts catalogues it shows the plate and screws but it only lists a part number for the screws and does not mention the cover plate.

My assumption is only vehicles originally FLOOR shift, possibly only those with bench seat floor shift got this extra cut and cover plate? This would mean CONSOLE shift vehicles would not have the extra cut and the cover plate? Most of the vehicles I have played with over the years that had have been console shift have been auto, with some 4spd. None of those have the extra cut and cover. Where I have normally seen the extra cut and cover plate have been commercials where there is a far higher prevalence of floor shift manual with bench seat. The assumption is the extra cut is to allow a body drop in the Assembly Plant onto the chassis with a bent stick 4spd shifter that the floor shift, bench seat cars had. Console shift 4spd had a straight stick and would not have this problem.

Thoughts?
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wbute Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 11:37:20 AM(UTC)
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I’ll check my WB and Sandman. One is obviously buckets and the WB was originally bench seat floor shift 4 speed.
Why wouldn’t they just pull the shifter at the rubber insulator on the bench seat though?
Dr Terry Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 4:09:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
All

Just a query about something I've never been able to confirm for certain.

Over the years I've seen many HQ-WB that were originally Aussie 4spd and have had the little extra cut in front of the hole in the tunnel with a small plate over it held by two screws. In all HQ-WB parts catalogues it shows the plate and screws but it only lists a part number for the screws and does not mention the cover plate.

My assumption is only vehicles originally FLOOR shift, possibly only those with bench seat floor shift got this extra cut and cover plate? This would mean CONSOLE shift vehicles would not have the extra cut and the cover plate? Most of the vehicles I have played with over the years that had have been console shift have been auto, with some 4spd. None of those have the extra cut and cover. Where I have normally seen the extra cut and cover plate have been commercials where there is a far higher prevalence of floor shift manual with bench seat. The assumption is the extra cut is to allow a body drop in the Assembly Plant onto the chassis with a bent stick 4spd shifter that the floor shift, bench seat cars had. Console shift 4spd had a straight stick and would not have this problem.

Thoughts?


My assumption is the same as yours. I've only seen those cut-outs on bench seat 4-speed commercials.

Having done 2 chassis swaps on HQ-HZ vans, the cut-out is exactly in that position& came in very handy.

Dr Terry.
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HK1837 Online
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 4:24:52 PM(UTC)
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Do you remember what BAP and/or VAP the vans were from Terry? I've also wondered if it was specific to Elizabeth, Pagewood or Acacia Ridge bodies. Not sure about Dandenong but they only ever made ute bodies.
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Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 4:31:29 PM(UTC)
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Too many years ago !! Didn't take any notice at the time.

40 years ago these things were just cheap transport, not like now.

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HK-Q-Z5.0Lfan Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 6:37:45 PM(UTC)
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This is a HQ tonner, from underneath.
Cab is full of parts, boves, & junk, so can't get an inside pic at the moment

Edited by user Wednesday, 8 September 2021 7:05:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Online
#7 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 7:21:24 PM(UTC)
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4spd bench seat? What body and assembly plants?
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#8 Posted : Wednesday, 8 September 2021 8:46:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
4spd bench seat? What body and assembly plants?


Yes, one tonner, originally 6cyl 4speed & bench seat.

Bonnet is storage area, will try to get more info & let you know

HK1837 Online
#9 Posted : Saturday, 11 September 2021 2:40:32 PM(UTC)
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I found the best reference for this, in the early HQ parts catalogue from later in 1971 when ute, van and cab-chassis were released where the plate actually has a part number, 2820683. Suits manual 801, 802, 803 and 804 except 37. I think the key here is there was no console shift in any of these at this time in 1971 except in Monaro. So it only suits hockey stick style floor shift. Can't post up images here, too hard.
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HK1837 Online
#10 Posted : Saturday, 11 September 2021 3:38:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post

Why wouldn’t they just pull the shifter at the rubber insulator on the bench seat though?


The rubber insulator was a later addition. Earlier cars were a one piece stick. Not just bench seat cars, all floor shift used the same shifter, and all console shift used another shifter. At the start of HQ up until XV2 (SS) was released all Belmont and Kingswood (and Holden cab-chassis) were floor shift regardless of bench or buckets. The only cars with this luxury/trim level designator the 80337 and 80437 (Monaro) came with console shift if 4spd optioned. All Premier, Statesman and GTS were console shift if optioned or standard with 4spd. It wasn't until later in HQ when XV2 then XV4, XW8 and XX7 were released that console shift became standard on any Belmont or Kingswood or derivative. If GMH hadn't made this extra cut and put a cover plate held down by two screws over it on 80337, 80437, 808, 811, 812, 815 or 816 early in HQ I doubt they would have done it to XV2, XV4, XW8 or XX7 plus later series when console shift was standard or optioned with 4spd.

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HK-Q-Z5.0Lfan Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 12 September 2021 1:30:38 PM(UTC)
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Just to get this straight, is the extra hole thought to be added (cut out) at the assembly stage?
HK1837 Online
#12 Posted : Sunday, 12 September 2021 1:53:41 PM(UTC)
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No, body plant stage. Same as the shifter hole. Cut looks gas-axe, same as on HK-HG before the shifter mount was added.

I figured out how to add an image. First one you can see the extra cutout, cover and screws. Then on the second refer to section 12.972, the last line.



Edited by user Sunday, 12 September 2021 2:48:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DW Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 28 March 2022 11:34:19 AM(UTC)
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Is there any evidence to say that a console shift had a different straight shifter applied?

Why would exactly the same gearbox have a different shifter? my assumption from looking at the parts page is that once a 4 speed gearbox had been assigned to a vehicle the cut out would be applied?

Is there evidence of a straight gear shifter in any early HQ parts catalogues?

The bent shifter is so due to the driving position in relation to the gearbox and makes life easier to get it up into reverse regardless of wether or not its a console or floor shift?

Any auto console would not have it due to the straight arrangement?

if anything a bench seat 4 speed would have a straight shifter due to the bench being present leaving less room for the driver?





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#14 Posted : Monday, 28 March 2022 12:06:30 PM(UTC)
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Wow! A lot to answer there.
I can say the bent shifter was for 3 seat commercials, & would not work with console
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HK1837 Online
#15 Posted : Monday, 28 March 2022 12:13:18 PM(UTC)
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Yes, later HQ parts catalogue lists floor shift and console shift with a different part number for both the MOUNTING & LEVER ASSEMBLY (bottom half of the shifter) and the LEVER & YOKE ASSEMBLY (top part). In the early HQ parts catalogue the MOUNTING & LEVER ASSEMBLY was called the MOUNTING ASSEMBLY and it was the same for both floor and console shift but the LEVER & YOKE ASSEMBLY is listed different for floor and console shifts. To me this means that all floor shift (bench and buckets) had the bent stick and all console shift had the straighter stick. Later parts catalogues get more confusing as they start to talk about bench and buckets and I think this gets mixed up with console shift getting pretty much standard with buckets late in the piece but it is pretty well spelled out in HQ.
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DW on 28/03/2022(UTC)
Dr Terry Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, 28 March 2022 3:51:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DW Go to Quoted Post
Is there any evidence to say that a console shift had a different straight shifter applied?

Why would exactly the same gearbox have a different shifter? my assumption from looking at the parts page is that once a 4 speed gearbox had been assigned to a vehicle the cut out would be applied?

Is there evidence of a straight gear shifter in any early HQ parts catalogues?

The bent shifter is so due to the driving position in relation to the gearbox and makes life easier to get it up into reverse regardless of wether or not its a console or floor shift?

Any auto console would not have it due to the straight arrangement?

if anything a bench seat 4 speed would have a straight shifter due to the bench being present leaving less room for the driver?



The shifter was bent to clear the bench seat when in 2nd & 4th gear. The knob is in the same position, but the stick is bent.

If you try & fit a console over a bent shifter, I believe that it will foul the console housing in rev, 1st & 3rd gears.

Dr Terry
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DW on 28/03/2022(UTC)
DW Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 28 March 2022 6:18:43 PM(UTC)
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Thank you 5.0l fan, HK and Dr Terry.

DW Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, 4 April 2022 7:27:33 AM(UTC)
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Does anyone have a photo of the tunnel between the bucket seats on HQ Sandman Van with the centre console removed to show where it has been secured?

The HQ parts catalogue shows the two sheet metal screws fwd of the shifter but there is no reference to the rear screw in the image?

The rear mounting bracket 2815991 shows being applied to models 35,37,69 with no reference to a 70.

The three screws (housing to underbody) are again only 35,37,69 with the 3rd screw to secure it to the rear mounting bracket I'm guessing?

Byron the image you showed me places the plug to far forward to be the rear securing point for the console on a HQ sandman van if using the same console as 35,37,69? I Think?

The cover plate 2820683 fwd of the shifter over the cutout applies to all except 37 (coupe) would indicate that any manual trans applied wether its floor or console would have the cutout?









HK1837 Online
#19 Posted : Monday, 4 April 2022 9:02:40 AM(UTC)
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You have to be mindful of timeframe when reading Parts Catalogues - prior to Sandman there was no console shift in a HQ commercial or a HQ Belmont or Kingswood for that matter (aside from XV2 (SS)). That scan is from a 1971 catalogue, and at that time the only vehicle in the model groups 801, 802, 803 and 804 that had console shift was the Monaro models (ie 80337 (Monaro) and 80437 (V8 Monaro)). Which means console shift didn't have the little cover but floor shift did and why the rear bracket is only shown for wagon (Premier), coupe (all) and sedan (Premier and Deville).

The plug is near to the seat separator front screw hole. That plug is there on all HQ, I think it was for the body dip crap to get all though that underbody member. The seat separator bracket is also used for the console rear bracket. The bracket is there on ALL bucket seat HQ's except for 4spd floor shift. Either the seat separator or a console is screwed to it using the same screw, the only time it was deleted was if a vehicle was 4spd floor shift.
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HK-Q-Z5.0Lfan Offline
#20 Posted : Friday, 8 April 2022 10:22:17 AM(UTC)
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Was there 2 different length (straight) gear sticks?

I remember there being an occasional floor shift that seemed longer, possibly in ute or vans, or maybe the gearstick "grew" a bit with the addition of the rubber dampner?
I'm not talking about in comparison to ones that were cut short with a different knob, for that boy racer style
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