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aKabud Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 17 September 2021 10:48:31 PM(UTC)
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It’s no doubt been discussed a number of times on here. Can yous bring me up to date though. What are the main issues, the things to be weary of and keep an eye out for.
What are the main concerns when replacing a 186 / powerglide with a 307 / power glide
Are there any concerns mating the 186 powerglide auto up to the 307 Chev and linkages, speedo etc. What are the options for the gear changer.
Thanks in advance.
aKabud.
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, 18 September 2021 8:02:13 AM(UTC)
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Which series?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Sandaro Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, 18 September 2021 6:02:30 PM(UTC)
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Presuming you're talking about HK or ht, still need to know whether you presently have column shift or floor shift. I might have misinterpreted your post, but you are going yo need a V8 powerglide to go with the 307, I don't believe that you can just bolt up the 186 one
aKabud Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 18 September 2021 7:39:17 PM(UTC)
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Oh ! I Beg your Pardon. Sorry a HK 186 - Chev 307, Yes that would help. I was'nt even thinking about HT307s but, yeah there were some of them.Matter of interest while on HK/HT 307. Was the 307 Chevs used in the HT the same engine as used at the introduction HK ?. I mean the sort of thing as in HK 327 where there was a Type 1 and a type 2, or were all the 307s engines,the same for HK and HT.?Maybe all from the same plant.Were all models in the HK & HT Series release optioned with a 307 Chev engine.
Sorry about all the questions. Just do'nt think there is much chance these days of me getting both models side by side to do a transplant.
Very Greatful for any help though.
HK1837 Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, 18 September 2021 8:13:43 PM(UTC)
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All HK and HT 307 were 1968 model engines, and all from the Canadian engine plant. 1968 model engines were made from August 1967 to July 1968. The 307’s used in HT were engines originally intended for HK but not used for a number of reasons.

307 was optional in all HK models except where it was standard (Brougham) or GTS327 where 327 was standard.

307 was sort of optional at the start of HT except on Brougham where 308 was standard and GTS350 where 350 was standard. 307 was only available on V8 HT models which in HT were a different model to 6cyl versions. The V8 HT models other than Brougham and GTS350 were standard with 253 manual (3spd) or M21 4spd in the case of V8 GTS with the M21 4spd optional on other V8 models. There was no auto option, if you wanted a V8 auto you got 307 and Powerglide. This remained until 307 were all used and from then onwards V8 models were available as 253 manual (3 or 4spd), 253 Powerglide, 308 4spd or 308 Powerglide. There were some late HT with Trimatic.

I’ll list your parts you need in another post. However I need to know if your HK is console shift or column shift.

Edited by user Saturday, 18 September 2021 8:14:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
aKabud Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 19 September 2021 12:33:03 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Sandaro and HK 1837. for your response. I don’t presently have a 186 powerglide, I was just trying to get some idea if doing such a transplant. I had for some time toyed with the idea of getting a HK fitted with a Chev V8 and it seems buying such a vehicle was becoming pretty slim so the next best option was to get 6 cylinder model and fit a V8. So I was just thinking of my about my options. Maybe I should have started off this post by mentioning what I was seeking to do, so column shift or floor shift hadn’t really come into my thinking.
Thanks again for your help with this
aKabud
HK1837 Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, 19 September 2021 8:24:38 AM(UTC)
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It'd be cheaper to buy one already done. If you were to convert a HK 6cyl to V8 today you'd not do it as per original, would cost you way too much as some of the parts you'd need are really hard to find and costly. Like a nodular iron Borg Warner made banjo V8 diff centre, a HK-HG SBC style sump and pickup, column shift crossover mechanism etc. Even a V8 Powerglide will cost you $1000 for a rebuilder today. Your best bet would be to buy an engine that didn't come from a Holden or Statesman, like a GenII small block which bolts in the same as a SBC. Use a TH350, and run a B&M shifter. Or if you want column shift fit a V8 Trimatic with RH shift and get a Chevrolet pattern bellhousing for it, and fit a HG column and linkage. Run a 9" or a Borg Warner. In the end will be a lot cheaper. With the Trimatic you wouldn't even have to holesaw a speedo cable in the firewall.

Note there was no floor shift auto in HK-HG. Only column shift or console shift.
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Sandaro Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, 19 September 2021 12:49:51 PM(UTC)
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Look I get the distinction between floor shift and console shift, but there is a lot of literature from Holden that didn't take your hard line. HK brochures for example that refer to '4 on the floor' or 'floor auto' albiet at places also referring to 'with floor console'
Maybe not so black and white. Maybe the distinction should be floor shift with or without console. Someone reading your posts that their is no floor shift auto for the first time might be confusing
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, 19 September 2021 1:16:13 PM(UTC)
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GMH Engineering docs often call it M11 console shift for automatic, although sometimes they mix it up and state M11 Console Floorshift. Floor shift is normally reserved for manual only, and it is very rare outside of commercials. Dealer Order forms get confusing too, they often say stuff like Floor Shift Console or incl. M11 Floor Shift or M11 Console Shift. I find it far less confusing to call them:

Column Shift
Floor Shift.
Console Shift.

That way there is zero confusion.

I do not put any faith in what marketing did as they screwed lots of things up. Most sales brochures do not even show images of the vehicles they are marketing.
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aKabud Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, 26 September 2021 10:17:54 PM(UTC)
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So a 307 with powerglide out of a HK would be a good start. Then start think about gear shifters, column or console and diff 9” or Borg Warner. What sort of options are there for the a tailshaft.
Yeah I might be able to get the 307 engine with powerglide but not so sure about the rest.
aKabud Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 27 September 2021 9:42:15 PM(UTC)
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How would a Salibury Diff match up with the HK307 SBC & Powerglide, a friend has just told me he may be able to help me with one.Is there any particular one or are they all the same ? Thanks for all the help here.
aKabud
Sandaro Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 28 September 2021 8:59:57 AM(UTC)
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If you 307 and powerglide together and are putting it in a car that was a 6 with powerglide you will be able to keep all the same linkages (provided you are staying with the same shifter location) so if it was a column shift car staying with column shift. The linkages are the same for 6 or 8 for same the location of the shift.

There are different salisbury diffs, various differences, but the common ones you might come across are HQ on ones that aren't a straight fit in, particularly the sedan type that are bracketed for trailing arms (not leaf springs) plus different stud pattern etc
HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 28 September 2021 9:51:50 AM(UTC)
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Not quote right. 6cyl console shift Powerglide and V8 Powerglide are basically interchangeable shifter wise. However column shift aren't. The crossover mechanism is very different. 6cyl goes across the front, same as HD-HR. V8 is at the back of the box for both 307 and 253/308. The V8 boxes also have the different rear housing with different rear mount, which is also why the speedo cables are different as they are in the extension housing. They are not interchangeable. The column is teh same from memory.

As Sandaro says a HK-HG Salisbury will fit but the body is different so it won't bolt in using factory bits, example the body mount for the rubber brake hose is in a different location. There is a hump in the body and the fuel tank to clear a Salisbury diff but you don't need it for a 10-bolt Salisbury, only for a 12-bolt which are so rare anyway as an original item not worth talking about.
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Sandaro Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 28 September 2021 11:26:05 AM(UTC)
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It's been along time since I converted one, but I was able to use the same shifter mechanisms and make it work- from what you're saying my job would have looked different to the way the factory did it. Yes I recall now having to retain the speedo cables that came with the box
aKabud Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, 28 September 2021 12:29:08 PM(UTC)
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Yeah ! I think he was talking about a 10 bolt probably out of a Monaro, I’ll better check that when I catch up with him again. Is there no problems with body clearances with 307, powerglide and Salisbury. So with those 3, the 6 cylinder linkages will do the job but your’re saying the 6 cylinder transmission support x member is different, is it a different one altogether or can the 6 cylinder one be modified to suit. I am familiar with the Chev Saginaw set up but, seems there is a bit more involved with Chev Powerglide. Thanks for all the help.
aKabud
HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Tuesday, 28 September 2021 2:03:30 PM(UTC)
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Monaro is standard with banjo. The only time a Monaro got a Salisbury was if it was a V8 manual in HK, in HT-HG it had to be a 308 manual to get a Salisbury (unless it was a very rare HT 307 manual or optioned as 307/308 auto with 3.36). HK Monaro GTS was standard with a Salisbury if optioned as V8 auto from about the start of August 1968. HT-HG V8 GTS got a Salisbury standard with 307 or 308. And of course all HK-HG 81837 were Salisbury standard or as a dealer fitment a a 12 bolt Salisbury was available.

You will be fine body with with any SBC, Powerglide and 10 bolt in any HK. You just have to sort out the top hose mount for the rear brakes.

Edit - Had to run, finally got back to it!

The column shift setup from the column attachment through to the box is very different to 6cyl as is the box. So you have to cut a V8 speedo cable hole in the firewall for the speedo cable as it is on the passenger side. The rear mount and crossmember is basically the same as for Saginaw just without the shifter mount.

In all honesty the far easier and cleaner and cheaper conversion is to simply buy a red 308, convert it to HK-HG sump and pickup (aftermarket available). If you want column shift forget a Powerglide, just find a V8 Trimatic from HQ to WB off a column shift car or RH shift lever car. It will bolt into a HK using a HK 6cyl Powerglide (or M15 3spd manual) gearbox crossmember, and use a standard HK M15 3spd speedo cable (or HT-HG Trimatic). Uses the same tailshaft as a V8 Powerglide. Just need to run a HT-HG Trimatic column and linkage. Radiatr is standard HT-HG 253/308. Depending upon the carby you use the throttle linkage will be pretty much standard. The only non standard thing you'd need to do is setup an electric kickdown switch for the later Trimatic but that isn't all that hard.

If you want to make it console shift and can find a HT-HG Trimatic shifter and console insert use a LH shift V8 Trimatic out of a VB-VL or WB.

Edited by user Tuesday, 28 September 2021 5:26:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Wednesday, 29 September 2021 9:40:49 AM(UTC)
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Forgot to add.

If you want to run a SBC you don’t need to focus on a 307. Any SBC or GenII GM engine will fit as long as it has side mounts, so 1959 onwards. They all fit the same except the GenII engines use a different flex plate as they have a smaller flange due to the one piece rear main. Plus 400 have a different balancer.

There are a lot of cheap SBC style engines out there still, some near free. Nothing wrong with a 283, once rebuilt most of them will be going 60 over anyway which is 292ci - these usually will go 125 thou over which gives you 302ci. You can also put a small journal 327 crank in 1963 onwards 283 blocks to turn them into a 307, at 60 over they are 317ci or thereabouts. With a good set of heads a 283 or stroked 283 goes well.

With a SBC design engine a TH350 is a better option than a V8 Powerglide in many ways. Uses the same speedo cable and rear mount as a Powerglide but will be messier to setup a shifter as column shift will be a custom arrangement. If you can find a HZ TH350 column shift setup you should be able to operate it with a HG Trimatic column though. The kickdown on a TH350 is by a cable off the carby, and is simple. All said I'd still look into a Trimatic as you can buy a SBC pattern bellhousing for them. The cost of the bellhousing is easily offset by the Trimatic cost and using off the shelf bits (speedo cable for HK M15) or bits you have (like the 6cyl Powerglide crossmember). You just have to find a HG column shift Trimatic linkage/bracket which should be pretty common, and fabricate up a small bracket for the kickdown switch. If you fit a SBC using HK-HG mounts and adapters a Trimatic will push back 3/4" compared to how it would with a 253/308 but this should be able to be accounted for in the crossmember (friend did this). The speedo cable will be OK, but you might have to make a small adjustment in the column turning linkage to move it back by 3/4". The tailshaft will have to be 3/4" shorter too but with a new diff you'd probably have to make one anyway.

Edited by user Wednesday, 29 September 2021 10:06:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
aKabud Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, 30 September 2021 2:20:57 PM(UTC)
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Yeah ! I was only thinking 307 Chev because I had the idea that 307 was a standard engine for V8HKs and there would be less likely any concerns with registering it. Yeah I understand things like engine, gearbox and diff similarities. I was playing with grey engines, gearboxes and banjo Diffs etc when I was a good bit younger. Anything with grey could swap around with anything grey, red to red, Chev to Chev etc all very good till someone come along and changed bolt patterns and engine mount positions etc.then someone come along and complicated things and added bits and pieces from all over the planet and started to mix them all up and now nothing would fit with anything else and throw in some of my health related issues to restrict things a bit more to where I was unable to be in amongst the practical side of all these things to see and do them being mixed and swapped around. Well there has been some changes recently and now might be able to see and do some of those things. but as mentioned earlier that I couldn’t afford to own a HK with Chev V8 the next best option was to get a 6 cylinder HK and fit V8 into it. Hence my original question to you blokes here. What’s involved in doing a transplant and have most of the basic mechanical skills and most tools and thanks for some basic guidance from you blokes on what will mix with what and more importantly I suppose if it’s still obtainable, I am beginning to see that I might just be able to manage it but 1st wanted make sure had on hand all the parts to do it or at least know what to have.
thanks aKabud
HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, 30 September 2021 3:51:33 PM(UTC)
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327 was a standard engine in HK too. 307 in Brougham and 327 in GTS327. There is no dramas fitting anything smaller either and normally no dramas fitting a 350 either. You won't have issues with a 308 either as it was standard in HT-HG (standard in Brougham).
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aKabud Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, 2 October 2021 3:58:15 AM(UTC)
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Do all HK-T-G engines, 6 or 8, Chev or Holden bolt on to the X member in the same way and same place. I.e if lift out a m6 out would Chev or Holden V8 drop back on to the X member mount.
Do all steering boxes bolt onto the subframe in the same way and also the steering column bolt up under the dash in the same place and do all HK T G Subframes bolt on to the main body the same. I realise there are some differences, but I mean just bolt up. I’m guessing all these above parts are interchangable and bolt up the same. I’ve never heard otherwise. Just because didn’t want to get a part home just to find it won’t bolt up.
Thanks again for all the help with this.
aKabud
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