G'day to you all.
This is my first post here after having a look around.
I was actually searching around for information on the Broughmaro show car and the only link in search brought me here.
Besides that, I thought I should drop a question about my HK Brougham that I have always wondered about. [img]null[/img]
My car has the factory fitted buckets and console shifter, and I wondered if anyone knew how many cars had this option.
I've never seen another one in the flesh or in a magazine so I was curious.
The car is also optioned as a vinyl roof delete and has the Fridgidaire air-con.
Other than that, it has the LSD diff, full instrument dash with green tint and push button radio.
The paint is Tennison Turquoise but was close door resprayed in the HK sky blue before I bought the car in 1997.
I'm the second owner, the original guy traded it in on a new Camry.
It'd be great to hear from anyone that can help.
Cheers.

Thanks for the reply.
So you've seen a lot of Brougham's with the reclining bucket seats, or are you referring to HK's in general which would include the fixed bucket seat type?
I have Norm Darwin's Story of HK HT HG Holdens book, and read a few times in the reproduced brochures in there, that the reclining buckets came with the console option.
That's what got me thinking about how many there were.
I'm not trying to work out how much value it adds, I just always thought it was a cool point of difference.
Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the info, sounds like you're a good bloke to know :)
You may be the guy I saw sitting in a panel van at the entry to the Adelaide showgrounds last year for the Extreme Auto Expo, after my wife and I finished setting up our Ford Mainline Ute for display in the hall. If it was you then we had a quick chat before we left about a Monaro you helped restore?

Anyhow, the Broughmaro got my attention last night after I saw it referenced in Norm Darwin's book and I did the 'what the hell is that?!' and did a search. I hope whoever has it now has plans to get the resto happening because I would love to see it, as I'm sure a lot of people would.
Probably like a lot of other Brougham owners, I fantasised when I first bought mine in '97 of finding as many GTS parts as I could and turning it into a Brougham GTS. Affording a Monaro was out of the question at the time so the GTS options sounded good, and it would give me something to work towards. I was only 21 at the time and had just started working as a Draftsman so money was tight.
Kids and a house followed in the next 2-5 years so not much happened at all, but I eventually fitted a small block 400, had the powerglide beefed up, and fitted a modified VR Commodore LSD live axle with 3:45 gears. I also removed the original air-con so I could fit a GTS console tacho. At least I got one GTS option in there!!
I tried to buy a GTS steering wheel for years as well, but they were always just out of reach, so I bought one of those real timber Grant steering wheels that had a chequered horn cap on it. Close enough. I recently bought a real GTS wheel that is stored safely until I get back to my Brougham, that has sadly been sitting for over a decade after the 400 (60 thou overbore) started filtering coolant through the combustion chambers. But I have the original 307 still so that will go back in again, as well as the original diff, I guess.

So it sounds like the options are all pretty scarce which is cool, and I would love to see those photos you mentioned.

I just had a better look at the HG order procedure. It looks like you could option M20 on a 6cyl Belmont sedan or wagon but only with a bench seat as buckets were not available. M11 was not available on Belmont either as a result. Also that means that M21 was not optional on a Belmont sedan or wagon as M21 always came with M11 and D55 or XS6. So if you wanted a 308 in a HG (and I assume HT) Belmont it had to be a column shift Trimatic. The V8 models came standard with 253 and 3spd manual or column shift trimatic. This is different to ute and van though as they were always optional with M22 or M21 and there was no M11 available. Rules were made to be broken though, so you'd imagine there would have been a few oddballs made. I remember raiding a HT Kingswood sedan at a local wreckers, it had gold trim on a beige body. It was a 186 M20 with power steering. I bought its console and front guards all of which I still have in the shed. The seats were D55 fixed back.

I think you'll find consoles only appeared in HK around the start of volume GTS production which was pretty close to the first week on July 1968. Monaro volume began on 20th June and Brougham on 27th June. I don't think any console shift Monaro or Brougham have been found that were built before GTS production began. The lost of pilots don't list M11 on any Monaro or Brougham, although the GTS pilots built in May and June must have had something.

I hear what you are saying in the first sentence but it reinforces what I was stating about it being confusing. It is quite clear that M20 was available on 6cyl Belmont sedan and it says M11 is mandatory WHEN bucket seats are specified, which implies you could get M20 with a bench. Then in another location it says M11 isn't available on Belmont. Then it says D55 is available on Belmont but not with M11. I think there was similar confusing stuff in the sales brochures. The HG Engineering Technical Specs show 6cyl and M20 was available though, just doesn't state what seats it came with and if it had M11. If it was D55 and M20 what shifter did it have!

Yes, M22 disappears near the HT-HG transition, so no more 6cyl 4spd commercials after late HT. In late March 1971 it became almost impossible to order a 4spd manual outside of GTS. Lots of trim combinations were NLA too as they wrapped up for the end of HG passenger production. Have you ever found a 4spd manual HG commercial after HQ volume production began?

Agree, 308 (or 304) wasn't standard in many places from HT through to even the end of VL. However if it was optioned it came with its standard transmission ie M21 just about anywhere it was optionable from HT right through to VK. The only places it didn't were where auto was already standard, like HJ-HZ Premier, HJ LS etc.

Agree on the oddballs, they interest me more than GTS's today. The reason they are rare is a Retail Order is rare, most cars, possibly as high as 80-85% were built by GMH for sale and these were rarely oddballs. Then a lot that were Retail Order were simply a colour and trim variation. This is why its so rare to even find optional rear axles or a combo of more than an option or two. V8 HT-HQ Belmont commercials are very rare in any combo, it wasn't until Sandman that they seem to accelerate in popularity. You see it on Elizabeth body ID plates vs PSN and chassis number - you'll find 6cyl models close to your two numbered in the many hundreds or even 1000's. I only have two left but they are not really oddballs, just examples of retail order cars. A HK Kingswood sedan in beige with beige trim, but its optioned with 186, JL2 and M15. And a HK Monaro in a CTV colour of Woodsman green with 18X trim, optioned with 186, JL2 and G80 LSD. I unfortunately missed out on a HK Belmont van that was white with black buckets, 186, M21 and LSD. A demo derby bloke beat me there by 10 minutes. I also cut up a HG V8 Kingswood sedan that was M21, D55, M11 and G80. It donated its floor pan to repair a V8 manual GTS with a rusty floor, and its pink tailshaft is in my early 307 auto banjo HK GTS. It too was rescued from a demo derby.

Driveline wise that is a standard HG V8 Premier, unless it had a diff other than 3.08 or had LSD.

There was a Mediterranean Blue and Electra Blue
Tunisian Turquoise was added to HG in April 1971 but only on Premier sedan (not wagon).

Sorry, my bad. JL2 is disc brakes in HQ-HZ, I was using that code, that is what happens when you rely upon your memory of such things too much! It was J52 in HK-HG, my bad. I think they changed the code as they changed to single piston, as in HQ it is called "front wheel disc brakes - single piston" and in HK-HG it is just "front wheel disc brakes".

Woodsman Green wasn't a standard HK Monaro colour chart colour, so it was a special order or possibly a fleet order hence a Colour/Trim Variation. I have seen three of them. But it was also LSD which is unlikely to be a Stock Order. but that is common in Retail Order cars when you can get a few abnormal options mixed together.

GMH started out in HK trying to allow people to build a "custom" Holden, and reckoned they could do it in a short time frame from order to delivery ( I think it was 4 weeks). But that was almost an impossibility. So more and more they started to predict what would sell and built most of their cars as Stock Order. There was even manuals and training on "how to sell from stock". It is one of the reasons why the Nasco aircon kits were made, so not having aircon wouldn't stop a sale from stock. Many people thought they were "ordering a car" and getting it in a short timeframe, but what was happening was dealers sold from Dealer Stock, Dealer Swap, Plant Stock or off the schedule (as in off cars in the production schedule). Huge amounts of GMH cars especially HQ onwards were Stock Order.

I have a Retail Order HJ Premier, it was ordered in October 1974 or thereabout, complianced 12/74 and delivered 2/75. It has the following options: L31, U17 dash, buckets, console shift, LSD, groupIII metallic, power steer, integrated A/C, wide wheels (6"), power antenna, heated rear window, power windows.

That would definitely have been a Retail Order, I’m surprised it even got through as at the time GMH were heavily restricting 4spd ute and van as they were flat out building Sandman. I have internal memos stating as much.

Even if they could have pushed it through you would have never got a 350 manual as all those engines and boxes had been exhausted well before the end of 1973, this is why so few manual HQ XW8 were made. After then all 350 powered HQ were automatic.