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Smitty2 Offline
#21 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 11:11:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post

no...
GMH stopped painting them blue one day and started painting them black*... there was a breakpoint and bingo all were black from then on.


I was trying to work out the logistics of that. I have it that the last 4.2 V8 was built on Nov 2 1984 & it was painted blue. This coincided with the cessation of WB production. I thought that all V8s fitted to WBs were painted blue.

The VK was released in Feb 1984 so Black 5.0 production must have begun in late 1983. Blue 5.0 V8s were still to WBs being fitted almost a year later. Are you saying that 5.0 WBs built in 1984 had 1983 built motors.

Dr Terry


yes and its simple really... you see at Port Melbourne, there was a VERY large storage area (plant17?) for engines, trans, diffs etc down the back of the site
and it had all the production at the Bend put there (except for stuff like parts for Trimatic production in SA which was shipped as made) and
the VAPs drew on that stock as their VAP builds required. Totally possible, most likely blue and black L6 and V8 engines would be held there at the same time

the engines as you know were stamped with a white 2 letter 'production' code like say 'WG' (and a 4 speed gearbox maybe ZE) and if Dandenong needed tomorrow,
25 x 'WG' engines (the codes show on broadcast sheets) .. then they would be shipped just before being needed on the line ( a simple JIT system).
The VAPs did not hold stock of engines, trans, diffs beyond a day or 2 production needs so storage was needed somewhere



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wbute Offline
#22 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 11:19:50 AM(UTC)
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They had to be building them at the same time surely? VH and WB ran concurrently as did WB and VK.
If they didn’t build them side by side, why didn’t they just put black motors in 84 WB’s? Was because they didn’t want to offer a black 253?
To store enough for a year’s production of WB, that would be around 15000 motors.

Edited by user Thursday, 21 March 2024 11:22:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Dr Terry Offline
#23 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 11:37:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post


yes and its simple really... you see at Port Melbourne, there was a VERY large storage area (plant17?) for engines, trans, diffs etc down the back of the site
and it had all the production at the Bend put there (except for stuff like parts for Trimatic production in SA which was shipped as made) and
the VAPs drew on that stock as their VAP builds required. Totally possible, most likely blue and black L6 and V8 engines would be held there at the same time

the engines as you know were stamped with a white 2 letter 'production' code like say 'WG' (and a 4 speed gearbox maybe ZE) and if Dandenong needed tomorrow,
25 x 'WG' engines (the codes show on broadcast sheets) .. then they would be shipped just before being needed on the line ( a simple JIT system).
The VAPs did not hold stock of engines, trans, diffs beyond a day or 2 production needs so storage was needed somewhere



So you're saying that they stockpiled Blue 5.0 V8s in late 1983, for 1984 WB Statesman production & then they continued building 4.2 V8s & painting them blue until Nov 1984.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
wbute Offline
#24 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 1:24:01 PM(UTC)
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They would have had to stockpile blue 6 cylinders as well??

Why didn’t they put black motors in 84 WB’s?

Edited by user Thursday, 21 March 2024 1:25:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#25 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 5:27:19 PM(UTC)
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As wbute says, they had to be building them side by side, some were blue and some were black. No different to Torana prefix engines side by side with Holden and Statesman engines except they were painted the same colour. But take a step back to HK-HG, S engines were painted a different colour to regular 6cyl, so it was an established practice. 3.3, 4.2 and 5.0 litre engines stayed blue until the end, and they were cast to be used as the schedule dictated. What did change at some time is the engine number pad on later WB 3.3L engines stopped being machined, it was rough cast. Just like the VK black 6cyl engines. Obviously a WB or a VK 5.0L is the same block and rotating assembly, same heads etc. Just like Torana vs Holden its a different dress though, as in sump, pickup, engine mount adapters, exhaust manifolds etc. The carbied VK 6cyl was even more different than the V8, as it also had different flywheel/flexplate amongst other stuff. Still the same basic block, crank, rods etc. You have to also remember that just because a local car was no longer fitted with a particular engine that it didn't continue in export vehicles. Example being the 2.85L engine remained into VK. And GMH were still building the 1974 HJ spec engines and exporting and/or fitting the engines locally into export market vehicles. Those pre-canister ADR27 spec engines are very different to especially the ADR27A engines, yet they kept building them. Same colour as the local ones, but significantly different engines to others. What I'm getting at it just because the 4.2 disappeared from Commodore and Calais, it doesn't mean is wsn't used outside of WB. It is also possible GMH stockpiled 4.2L engines for predicted WB schedule, it wouldn't be without precedent. Its what they did for HG spec V8 engines for South African assembly and for post HQ release HG commercials, also done later with VSIII V8 engines once VTII arrived.

Edited by user Thursday, 21 March 2024 5:30:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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wbute Offline
#26 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 6:53:03 PM(UTC)
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You would still think it would have rationalised things if they had just changed 84 WB to black motors.
HK1837 Offline
#27 Posted : Thursday, 21 March 2024 9:26:57 PM(UTC)
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They could have but it’s only paint. The engines were a lot different in how they were dressed which would have been a much larger pain than different engine paint.
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Castellan 2 Offline
#28 Posted : Friday, 22 March 2024 9:03:11 AM(UTC)
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The last casting date of the 253 ? and last one built ? and then last one fited ?

Ford had 250 log 6 in up to 6/1978 in the F100, then the X Flow 4.1L came in 7/1978, same with the 200 low comp log 6 in the Transit to 6/1978 and then low comp 4.1L from 7/1978 in the new model.

The f100 with 250 Log 6 got Heavy Duty bits and hardened valve seats fitted and the valves sat proud in the chamber, not flat like the rest of the log 6.

Then we had 4.1L 6 in the XF ute and P van up to 2/1993 ? then the XG Longreach came on sale 3/1993, so the old 4.1L could of ended any time and then stored them all but no ! I thought with the end of the XF sedan but no the old OHV X Flow got the 3.9L OHC Crank from the EA Falcon, so Ford were making the old OHV 4.1L during the same time as the 3.9L OHC was being made.
Dr Terry Offline
#29 Posted : Saturday, 23 March 2024 8:55:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Castellan 2 Go to Quoted Post
The last casting date of the 253 ? and last one built ? and then last one fited ?


When I said "I have it that the last 4.2 V8 was built on Nov 2 1984 & it was painted blue". I was referring to the last 4.2 V8 built at the the engine plant. There was a small ceremony & a I have press release regarding it.

Dr Terry
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Castellan 2 on 23/03/2024(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#30 Posted : Saturday, 23 March 2024 11:56:09 AM(UTC)
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Anyone know of any really late WB commercials? The last one I have is L145839 which is an 11/84 complianced V8 manual van. I have Statesmans out into L15xxx and 12/84 compliance.

I owned a late 1984 V8 manual cab-chassis for a while, I might have its rego papers still. It was 11/84 or 12/84, can't remember which. It had an exchange engine in it though, but the original should have been getting close to the 500000 mark in engine number.
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Castellan 2 on 23/03/2024(UTC)
wbute Offline
#31 Posted : Monday, 25 March 2024 7:32:27 AM(UTC)
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11/84 is the latest I have seen. They must have pushed a heap out in 9/84 as there seems to be a lot about with that build date.
There must have been a few left in dealers yards as I know a bloke locally that bought a new V8 Kingswood Ute new in January 85 from Wellington Holden dealer.
Dr Terry Offline
#32 Posted : Monday, 25 March 2024 10:57:59 AM(UTC)
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Yes, they must have pushed out quite a few towards the end of WB production, there were plenty sold well into 1985.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
HK1837 Offline
#33 Posted : Monday, 25 March 2024 6:18:07 PM(UTC)
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You'd imagine they would have planned to assemble any remaining scheduled vehicles before Xmas break 1984. Although I can't see any ADR's applicable to commercial vehicles coming into force on 1/1/85 so they may have complianced a few in January 1985. There may have been a straggler or two that weren't actually finished until January 1985. This happened with Dandenong HZ commercials, they were all completed by Xmas 1977 except for one that was delayed until about 20th January 1978 - I reckon it was still December 1977 complianced though. There was an ADR34a that came into force in January 1985 to do with child restraints for rear seat passengers in passenger vehicles, so you'd think they complianced all WB Statesman no later than 12/84. The 12/84 WB Statesman I have recorded only has ADR34 on the ADR tag. Funnily enough I have a few with chassis numbers EWB600xxA. They are all 11/84 except one of them is 12/84 it's PSN is lower but has highest chassis number of EWB60075A. EWB60073A is 11/84 compliance. I have another that shows 12/84 on the BODY ID tag but do not have its ADR tag, it is the highest PSN I have seen yet. Out of interest, AWB00001A is 9/79 compliance.
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