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castellan Offline
#21 Posted : Saturday, 28 September 2024 11:34:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Sandaro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
Back in HQ, even dual exhaust and 3.36 rear axle woke them up. A HQ XV2 (SS) with both was basically as quick as a stock manual 308 (single exhaust). If GMH had made them a fraction more special with the 308’s intake and carb it may have changed people’s opinion about 253’s forever. There would have been no point making LH SLR5000 other than the L34 variant.


I think with the 308,in stock trim, Holden made it a low down torque monster. It wasn't a drag strip machine but designed to tow the boat/van.

Fortunately they are easy to wake up and the ones I have built with simple mods, still everyday streetabe, would make the 350 obsolete!!

Probably comes back to the old saying, "there is no substitute for cubic inches"


That’s sort of true for the original 308. From HT through to HQ it was only 9:1 and used a retarded by 5deg 253 cam. Regardless of the BS 240hp advertised power figure quoted, it was 227hp SAE Gross. Compounding this was every 308 powered HT-HQ cane standard with a single exhaust. In LH SLR5000 the dual exhaust were tiny, the combined cross section barely bigger than the Holden’s 2” single.
The HJ engine was 250hp SAE Gross. Courtesy of compression increased to 9.7:1 and a significantly better cam. This engine was a real weapon, just ask anyone who bought a HJ optioned with dual exhaust or, later LH or early LX 5.0L and replaced the tailpipes. This was the highest power rated 5.0L until the HDT engines. The L34 engine was given more rated hp than the stock HT to HQ 308 (240hp to 227hp) but it was still fitted with the retarded 253 cam, ran the same carby etc. Sure it had larger valves and better headers but without the cam to support it and still having the tiny tailpipes it would have struggled to use that power. On a dyno you’d most likely get it to rev more produce more peak power than the HJ engine, but GMH conservatively rated it. Remember they were trying to hide any involvement in racing!


Must be that Holden put the Torana 1.9L 4cyl mufflers on the 308 SL/R5000 as the pipe going to the muffler must of been the same size ? and going out is the same size as the 4cyl ?
1.9L X2 = 3.8L -VS-5.0L not to mention the V8 does not rev as hard as the 1.9L 4CYL ?
I think it was just cost cutting from Holden. they just turn the muffler over for the right hand side and bend a 4cyl size pipe to suit and both pipes going to the muffler.
Why not just use the 6cly pipes or are they the same as the 4cyl ? i think they maybe, i remember the HQ 6CYL were a real small tail pipe, but for when the Blue 6 cyl WB came out they had a huge, like 2in tail pipe !

I do not see a problem with the size of the pipes to the muffler being a problem but for the mufflers being the real problem of restriction, just as it is so with the HQ-J-X=Z as it's the muffler that is restricted and the main reason for the love of small tail pipes is that so they do not drone.
Not to mention the need for the same size pipe in and out of the muffler maybe that it's not needed after the muffler in regards the car company's opinions ?

Every stock muffler i had seen back in the days were all smaller size tail pipe coming out of a muffler.

Remember how big the original muffler was on a HK-T-G 6CYL sitting along the rear under the boot and the small tail pipe ! I think the V8 of them was a bit bigger tail pipe tho. They were quieter than the Original HD-R were. I remember that note of them and the HK on was not like that. The big deal back in the HK-T-G was that Holden made out how quiet they were ! that was the trend !
HQ 202 exhaust made a diffrent type of note !
The LH 6cyl Torana i do not remember their note but the HQ on were not as quiet car as the HK-T-G in it's body design i am totaly sure of that ! but the LH Torana were not a quiet car body wise you had more noise within the car than a HQ on even ? and this may be why the smaller dual pipes were used or that the Torana was never made for such big pipes ?

I remember the Ford Cortina's from 1973 on and as models progressed, Ford spent a lot of money to try and get rid of noise from a passengers point of view it was not a quiet body design !
A VB on Commodore were a quieter body car than the HQ-Z. The WB Statesman ? more sound deadining was packed into them !

I remember my dads 1976 F100 250 6CYL How much more noise that engine made coming through the fire wall was astounding, you could not hear the exhaust as the tail pipe as 2 miles away down the end but their was a sort of drone hum i would say due to the pipe, as with extractors they also make a noise regardless, it's not a note out the rear tail pipe but you do know that it has extractors on it due to that tingle noise ? That's why Car makers love exhause manifolds ! they rejudce that sort of noise.
HK1837 Offline
#22 Posted : Saturday, 28 September 2024 4:24:28 PM(UTC)
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LH Torana tailpipes and main pipes were sometimes smaller than Holden. They went like this:

Main pipes:

L4 - 1.62"
L6 - 1.87"
4.2 - 1.87"
5.0L and N10 on 4.2 - 2"

Tailpipes:

L4 - 1.5"
L6 - 1.62"
V8 and N10 - 1.62"

HJ Holden and Statesman:

Main pipes:

6cyl - 1.875"
V8 - 2" or twin 2"

Tailpipes:

6cyl - 1.625"
V8 - 2" single or twin.

What happened with the Holden V8 muffler was they were 1.875" inlet and outlet in single or twin. The pipes stepped down and back up again. One of the common "fixes" done in the 70's and 80's by exhaust shops was to cut out the stepdowns and fit 2" mufflers. V8 twin pipe Torana owners used to get 2" mufflers and new tailpipes.



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castellan on 30/09/2024(UTC)
castellan Offline
#23 Posted : Monday, 30 September 2024 2:06:12 PM(UTC)
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I think the stock mufflers were very restrictive, bar the HK-T-G GTS Dual setup into one muffler and 4 pipes. a dude over from next door had a HG 350 GTS Monaro, back in 1973 all original pipes and all and he would have the boot into it, nice note !
A HQ GTS350 was quiet dual system.

I would say that the stock Holden HQ Dual system it's the muffler that need replacing to a more free muffler system.

I used a qiet dual on my 308, a Berkley with just bit of a note, much like a vy ss is but a bit louder than that, but no one could complain at all about that, driving such you just know it's a V8 ?
But then I went to a real free flow mufflers and as loud as hell, it was a dog leg but you could see half the pipe coming in and out ! too loud ! but picked up on power ! But i like the streight through mufflers they can be quiet enough, i found them to be louder at lower rev and queter up top. they can bend so you can not see through one end or the other ! but then again some of them are louder.

I had a Hills singel 2 inch Sport muffler streight through on my HG 253 nice note.

On my HQ 202 Just extractors and 2 inch all the way and a Burkley muffler that was quiet but not cheap crap flowing rubbish. people thought it was a stock system in fact. the dude that bought it claimed it a freek motor, i said no it's not, it's the exhaust system that wakes them up ! it's a must do ! even if you do not go the extractors.

I have heard the VE-F V6 with loud dual systems on them and boy do they sound like crap ! I said to a mate why the hell would one want to mess with the stock dual system as they flow real well as it is, you will not add power over such much at all. if not they will only loose perfomance if it's not tuned to such rubbish !

I had messed with such on my VS V6 Chipped and all. forget it, the money spent is not worth the bit extra power in fact. The best thing with them if you get a gutless one, is have it tuned real time Chipped on a Dyno. because some i believe are retarded from the pickup point for the spark timeing.
HK1837 Offline
#24 Posted : Monday, 30 September 2024 4:51:03 PM(UTC)
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I did the same on my LX hatchback. It was a dead stock 2/76 car. Still had its N67 jelly bean alloys and QL engine in it. It was a stock 3300 auto but pre ADR27A. I had it fitted with Perry (I think they were Perry) extractors and a 2.25" single system. It went really well for a stock LX. Handled like cr@p but it had way more go than with the original system. It felt like a 4.2L car. My V6 Hilux sounded like cr@p too with extractors and a single 2.75" system, that went on before it was supercharged and it was awful to listen to. Once it was supercharged it made it heaps better as it didn't hang on gears anymore and fart away, it'd rev out quickly and snap change gears. Still awful sound compared to a V8 though. It used to be funny when heroes in especially Rangers used to try and undercut traffic at lights, they must have wondered what the f@#k! A stock looking white Hilux with a canopy and bullbar towing a box trailer just pulled away from them, and what is that engine noise? I should have put a diesel bonnet on it and D4D badges but never bothered.
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Smitty2 Offline
#25 Posted : Monday, 30 September 2024 8:03:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
I think the stock mufflers were very restrictive, bar the HK-T-G GTS Dual setup into one muffler and 4 pipes. a dude over from next door had a HG 350 GTS Monaro, back in 1973 all original pipes and all and he would have the boot into it, nice note !
A HQ GTS350 was quiet dual system.
..................


ignoring the noise level and required note, I went for horsepower on my HT GTS350 manual
Extractors, larger pipes (up 1/4"dia from memory) all the way to the large rear 'çross' muffler
with the 4 pipe outlet was the go back in the 70s

Intake noise was the main thing that you noticed under heavy or WOT accelaration (not exhaust)
but the crackle on the over-run was wonderful. You always ran in a higher gear than normal around the
suburbs just to hear the wunderful noise when you lifted off the loud pedal. Raucous is an apt
description made better if you ran avgas :)

I compare it these days to the R8 SV340 HSV Tourer... much much quieter on cruise (highway travel
at 110 is in near silence with it ticking over @1100 in 6th) Much noisier on WOT acceleration if you
have the bimodal set on Track Performance goes the exhaust AND Intake noise. And the exhaust note
is gruff if you let it lug along in traffic...30kmh in 3rd gear just gives a nice 'you know its a V8'
note in the cabin (having a boom box in the back... being the rear area of the wagon helps)

Edited by user Monday, 30 September 2024 8:04:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
castellan Offline
#26 Posted : Wednesday, 2 October 2024 9:19:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I did the same on my LX hatchback. It was a dead stock 2/76 car. Still had its N67 jelly bean alloys and QL engine in it. It was a stock 3300 auto but pre ADR27A. I had it fitted with Perry (I think they were Perry) extractors and a 2.25" single system. It went really well for a stock LX. Handled like cr@p but it had way more go than with the original system. It felt like a 4.2L car. My V6 Hilux sounded like cr@p too with extractors and a single 2.75" system, that went on before it was supercharged and it was awful to listen to. Once it was supercharged it made it heaps better as it didn't hang on gears anymore and fart away, it'd rev out quickly and snap change gears. Still awful sound compared to a V8 though. It used to be funny when heroes in especially Rangers used to try and undercut traffic at lights, they must have wondered what the f@#k! A stock looking white Hilux with a canopy and bullbar towing a box trailer just pulled away from them, and what is that engine noise? I should have put a diesel bonnet on it and D4D badges but never bothered.


Do any 6 cyl sound good loud ? maybe the old Log head Ford 6 with dual system are ok ? Valiant Hemi 6 with Lake pipes down both sides sound ok.
A mates G Pak worked 202 with dual system but quiet, i liked that at idle with the big Cam and rev to 7000rpm as standing on the road as it went past, you could feel the vibration of the engine humming through your feet on the road. At idle with a big Cam dual system is the way to go for sure as the single sound crap.

A mates oldies did not like the thumping noise of the big Cam that the G Pak made, even tho it was quiet but the pipes were chev style pointing down to the ground behind the rear wheels. so he had to drop that mate off at the gate and let him find his way home in the dark.

V6 in your Hilux VS engine ? and then that stock ? you put on a VS V6 Supercharger ? on to a stock 9.35:1 V6 ?
castellan Offline
#27 Posted : Wednesday, 2 October 2024 10:31:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
I think the stock mufflers were very restrictive, bar the HK-T-G GTS Dual setup into one muffler and 4 pipes. a dude over from next door had a HG 350 GTS Monaro, back in 1973 all original pipes and all and he would have the boot into it, nice note !
A HQ GTS350 was quiet dual system.
..................


ignoring the noise level and required note, I went for horsepower on my HT GTS350 manual
Extractors, larger pipes (up 1/4"dia from memory) all the way to the large rear 'çross' muffler
with the 4 pipe outlet was the go back in the 70s

Intake noise was the main thing that you noticed under heavy or WOT accelaration (not exhaust)
but the crackle on the over-run was wonderful. You always ran in a higher gear than normal around the
suburbs just to hear the wunderful noise when you lifted off the loud pedal. Raucous is an apt
description made better if you ran avgas :)

I compare it these days to the R8 SV340 HSV Tourer... much much quieter on cruise (highway travel
at 110 is in near silence with it ticking over @1100 in 6th) Much noisier on WOT acceleration if you
have the bimodal set on Track Performance goes the exhaust AND Intake noise. And the exhaust note
is gruff if you let it lug along in traffic...30kmh in 3rd gear just gives a nice 'you know its a V8'
note in the cabin (having a boom box in the back... being the rear area of the wagon helps)


I would say that the stock HG GTS350 exhaust was not loud but just right, no one could mistake such was a V8 !

I do have a thing for intake noise tho as well of a V8 when you are into it !

I remember waiting for a mate outside a house and a XD 5.8L Highway patrol floored it, showing off too me, I looked up ! and thought Hey !

And the old mans 400 V8 Galaxie quiet exhause but the stock air filter had been mod with a lot of holes drilled in it, by the dude who owend it before us. he bought a blue P76 Targa floura. maybe it was his Son who drilled the holes ? for He had a New XD 4sp 5.8L with dual pipes out both sides at the rear. and his mate up the road had a blue XB GT 4sp who told me storys what they got up to.

I found on EFI IfThe intake pipe is too long, then you lack throttle responce directly ! If you get a short direct to the throttle body is the go ! makes them much more direct instant. A mate thought it made more Torque, but no ! it's only direct responce ! He claimed 100LB more Torque but it just feels like that because it's instant responce !

Yes you are correct a wagon or a P Van could make a exhaust that drones worse ! I think the HD-R X2 and 186S rear tail pipe was bigger on the Wagon and ute and P van than the sedan from factory, or the other way around, one would think !

A mate had the VE SS/V Ute with 375KW job done, the Bimodal and intake note setup gone ! but 375KW is stupid power for the road, he could drive well but it was to much for him he was a mentel case flat out everywhere! He was scared of it, not that he would admit it ! so he became a real sook and would not drive it on some roads with BS excuses. it's like boasting having a real big wannger to everyone look their it is you lot but can't truly deal with controling it all ? It's a skite car period ! just to boast BS ! Like he had the Honda CR500 only so he could catch up down the streights or he would of been left behind. but he road my Suzuki RMX250 and totaly loved it as you can totaly fanng the hell out of it and have a real ball, but the CR 500 you can not flog the p and pickhandles out such or you will bite the dust ! and that is always on your mind in fact, it's like Look out ! look out f ing look out the bastard is going to bite ya !

Sure it's good to get on something that goes like hell, but can you live with that ! is it the be all ? No it's not !
Like if i had a HT-G GTS350 or GT-HO It would only be for show and types of driving period ! Not an every day car for sure. even if the value of the car was $20 ? I would prefer my wifes Aurion to drive on long trips anyday. haha it's true.
HK1837 Offline
#28 Posted : Wednesday, 2 October 2024 2:48:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
I did the same on my LX hatchback. It was a dead stock 2/76 car. Still had its N67 jelly bean alloys and QL engine in it. It was a stock 3300 auto but pre ADR27A. I had it fitted with Perry (I think they were Perry) extractors and a 2.25" single system. It went really well for a stock LX. Handled like cr@p but it had way more go than with the original system. It felt like a 4.2L car. My V6 Hilux sounded like cr@p too with extractors and a single 2.75" system, that went on before it was supercharged and it was awful to listen to. Once it was supercharged it made it heaps better as it didn't hang on gears anymore and fart away, it'd rev out quickly and snap change gears. Still awful sound compared to a V8 though. It used to be funny when heroes in especially Rangers used to try and undercut traffic at lights, they must have wondered what the f@#k! A stock looking white Hilux with a canopy and bullbar towing a box trailer just pulled away from them, and what is that engine noise? I should have put a diesel bonnet on it and D4D badges but never bothered.


Do any 6 cyl sound good loud ? maybe the old Log head Ford 6 with dual system are ok ? Valiant Hemi 6 with Lake pipes down both sides sound ok.
A mates G Pak worked 202 with dual system but quiet, i liked that at idle with the big Cam and rev to 7000rpm as standing on the road as it went past, you could feel the vibration of the engine humming through your feet on the road. At idle with a big Cam dual system is the way to go for sure as the single sound crap.

A mates oldies did not like the thumping noise of the big Cam that the G Pak made, even tho it was quiet but the pipes were chev style pointing down to the ground behind the rear wheels. so he had to drop that mate off at the gate and let him find his way home in the dark.

V6 in your Hilux VS engine ? and then that stock ? you put on a VS V6 Supercharger ? on to a stock 9.35:1 V6 ?


Yes, dead stock 2011 V6 4.0L 1GR-FE, 10:1 compression. I made it identical to a 2009 TRD Hilux mechanically, I just didn't lower it like a TRD or put the Mardi Gras stripes and decals on - had Ultimate suspension 50mm raise.

Firstly put on a 2.75" system with Pacemaker extractors, and an XEDE piggyback processor. Also upgraded the front rotors and calipers to 120 Series Landcruiser, same as a TRD, and fitted 17 x 7.5" rims, same as a TRD, same offset just different look (TRD were Mardi Gras float looking wheels).

I dynoed it before and after the exhaust/tune on a chassis dyno, before and after, both on 98:

127.3kW@4615rpm, 449.5Nm@3521rpm.

140.6kW@5019rpm, 476.2Nm@3357rpm.

I also tried it on E10, the XEDE has a switch where you can have 2 x curves for timing and tune, it was set lower so you could run E10 or 95 if you had to:

140.2kW@5318rpm, [email protected].

Once it was supercharged, on 98:

178.6kW@4850rpm, 596.1Nm@3300rpm. Torque peaked at that, but it was over 500Nm and a flat curve from 2000rpm up to the rev limiter. It was still making power when it hit the rev limiter at about 4900rpm. We limited it to this, if you raise the limiter to 5500 these will pull 195kW at the treads, which is like 270kW at the engine. This was a Hilux though, with a 5spd auto. No need to rev it over 4900rpm! It pulled like a train. I left the standard air cleaner and intake on it too, the TRD one added another 10-15kW. Or you could be a douche and fit a snorkel and lose 20kW!

The Supercharger kits were originally made for TRD by Magnuson. They were sold as dealer fit kits for any 1GR-FE vehicle in the USA. Once TRD's rights expired they were badged as Magnuson.

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