I have just finished removing a V8/Trimatic and installing a reconditioned Turbo bolt pattern Holden V8 with a reconditioned Turbo 700 into a HQ.
After doing the correct pre start checks, wind over for Oil pressure / fuel / electrics etc everything seemed normal. Then on initial engine start, the engine squealed viciously, followed by pinging in the bell housing area. This caused me fair but of anxiety / stress as to what the problem was. Torque converter? Seized bearing? After Investigation and eliminating these possibilities, I discovered the starter motor was engaging the flex plate and briefly jamming before winding its way out squealing. The pinging was caused by the starter pinion gear not completely clearing the flex plate. I searched various forums however found very little information posted. After speaking to some colleagues, I found out there is a difference between a Turbo bolt pattern starter motor and a Trimatic starter motor. (No prize for guessing which starter I had used.) Although they both bolt up the same way, look very similar and start the engine, There is approximately a 7 to 10mm offset and you will need to measure the shaft to the housing mount face to see the difference. One would have thought, Holden would change the way the starter bolts up to avoid miss-installations. Since then I have mentioned this to a few people who have experience with Holdens and they didnt know. This got me thinking how many people have been caught out doing the same and thus the reason for this post. I hope this helps members in the future.

Anyhow all is good now and Im yet to run her in.

Regards Rockett

AFAIK there is no difference between the starter motors from HT to early HZ & V8 Torana (Manual, Tri-Matic or TH) but they did alter the stater motors nose casting when the VB Commodore was released. This mounted the starter closer to the block & rotated the solenoid higher to clear the Commodore frame rail. Again this was for any transmission. The other thing that changed was the flywheel/converter cover, because the hole moved about 8mm (upwards & outwards).

As long as you use the matching cover any starter will fit any engine/transmission combination. But the early starter will hit the Commodore frame, even though it fits the motor.

I cant see how this caused your ring-gear problem unless the old starter drive gear was knackered.

Dr Terry.

i had starter problems on my wb statesman a while ago (blue 308 tri) so i went to the wreckers and brought a starter one off a blue 308 tri VH commodore, when i went to put it on it wouldnt fit, it was only by millimeters, so i pulled it off and measured it and there was 7-8mm difference bettween it and my old one, the solanoid was also on a slightly different angle too, i changed the nose cones over and solved the problem that way

i should have the old nose cone off the commodore out the shed still, ill have a captian cook and compare it to a hq one and take a pic to show the slight difference

Ive heard this story plenty of times before, ie meshing problems, but never really looked into what is different or why. I knew the Commodore one changed a bit but I still have in the back of my mind that something else is different.

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

Hi Rockett,
Thanks for educating me. I have never come across these differences, nor recall hearing of it.
Bummer you got to learn about it the hard way!
Andy

As I said earlier, these 2 starters are interchangeable between motors (as long as you use the matching flywheel cover) & will not cause the meshing problems mentioned. Your problem will be elsewhere.

Dr Terry

Thanks for the feedback gents.

Forgive me If im wrong about the Turbo/Trimatic and its Red/Blue, however after fitting this starter with the correct offset, it meshes perfectly and engine now starts perfectly.
Went through all the above mentioned possibilities before the offset starter was mentioned. New flexplate is fitted correctly, in perfect cond and all starter gears used are in good condition. As mentioned before this has happened to more people than me and hopefully less in the future due to this post.

Regards Rockett

quote:

---

Originally posted by LHQ-253
Hi Dave,
I think that strap appeared sometime late/after HQ production. Lots Ive seen dont have the strap.
But then I didnt know there was a difference in V8 starter motors, either!
Andy.

---

gday andy, my HQ has the strap, and its a aug 74 build, did the strap share a bolt hole or did it have its own spot?

Edited by user Sunday, 13 September 2009 7:36:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

there is a definite difference in some starter motor / engine combinations , i was given a starter from a commodore ( cant tell you what model yet ) the bolt holes are 3 mm closer together ( maybe its metric ? ) after i altered the outer hole ( short bolt ) so i could fit it to my HQ 253 trimatic the drive pinion is in constant mesh with the ring gear ( overlapping by about 7 mm )
After quizzing some local sources ive been told that some 253 from some Torana may be different ??? but i cant vouch for it , just returned an aftermarket starter that bolted on fine but the pinion gear teeth clashed toe to toe with the ring gear and would not drive at all , others im seeing listed with shim kits to suspend the starter lower , seems there is more to this story

All genuine fitted (Bosch) starter motors will fit any red, blue, black block, auto or manual. There is a slight difference between H series & early commodore in the angle of the solenoid mounted into the starter end housing, so occasionally the solenoid (of a commodore starter) will hit the chassis on a H series where the lower control arm mounts, especially if engine has been out or engine mounts are old or saggy.

If it's an after market starter motor, you're on your own

Anything you said about holes being out or torana being different is rubbish