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Big Al Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, 16 October 2009 7:53:10 PM(UTC)
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Hi all,

Am currently cleaning up a HQ Premier. Was originally a 202/Trimatic, and I was always going to replace it with a 350 SBC and a TH350 or 400.

Was just thinking today about putting in a manual box. Dont know what I should be looking for. Any suggestions??

Cheers, Al
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, 16 October 2009 9:19:51 PM(UTC)
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If you want to keep it VERY "original", use a TH400 and connect it up to the factory column shift or T-bar using original HQ-HZ TH400 crossmember, tailshaft etc.
For a manual Id be using a Muncie. Whilst these were standard fitment to HQ 1837 and XW8 Kingswood it would be very hard to make it look factory with a Muncie as the bits you need are extremely rare, so itd probably have to be a modified setup. In whcih case Id be buying a full cable bellhousing, WB V8 clutch pedal and aftermarket shifter, and modify a TH350 crossmember from a WB sedan. Muncie boxes are quite cheap brand new from the US (about $1500 US), and if you get the right one you can use a normal V8 HQ tailshaft for your car.
Speedo cable will be a snack as TH350, TH400 and Muncie are standard at some time for HQ-WB.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Big Al Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 16 October 2009 10:22:40 PM(UTC)
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I had always intended to keep it as an auto because it was originally a column shift auto, I dont have any sort of console, just the one that extends to length between the front seats (about 400mm long) and obviously there is no hole in the floorpan.

Im not too concerned about originality. As long as it sort of looks like it should be there.

Will a Muncie be able to handle the power of a 350? Excuse my ignorance, I didnt really grow up with these old girls, so things like this, Im not too sure on.
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, 16 October 2009 10:28:15 PM(UTC)
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Definitely. A Muncie is the strongest factory box in M22 form was used behind 427 big blocks in ZL-1 Camaros. Youd be better off with an M20 or M21 version though as they are a lot quieter and cheaper.

http://www.tbtrans.com/muncie_4_speed.htm

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Big Al Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 16 October 2009 10:50:49 PM(UTC)
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Some good info there. Cheers for that! Its a hard choice between the manual and auto.
jim Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 1:44:36 AM(UTC)
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Have you thought of a ford toploader?you can get bellhousings(crs) in aust,and hydraulic clutch set up,all here and a very tuff box,cheaper than a rare muncie set up.(better in my opinion)

Jim in adelaide
Jim in Adelaide..
Big Al Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 2:17:03 AM(UTC)
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No I havent Jim. Only because I was unaware. Thanks for the info!
HQforme Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 3:46:54 AM(UTC)
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Question: I have a fully recod 4speed with new old stock Holden cluster and was wondering how it would last behind a mild 350, provided it dont do full noise standing starts too often. Haha.

I know anything will last if you baby it, but id like more opionions much like the topic starter please.

Edited by user Saturday, 17 October 2009 3:50:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"Silly modern cars"
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 6:01:12 AM(UTC)
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Aussie 4spd will last, just look how successful L34s were. I wouldnt do it though.

Jim, toploader isnt the box a Muncie is. Muncie was standard in HQ and bolts up to a SBC using factory GM parts, or a readily available CRS or Dellow bellhousing. Also uses standard HQ-HZ tailshaft, yoke etc. Just needs an aftermarket shifter. Plus Muncies arent rare, they can still be bought brand new. Plus its a GM part, not a foreign Ford part.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
commodorenut Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 6:36:36 PM(UTC)
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If youre going to that much trouble, Id be at least putting a World-Class T5 into it, or even a T56.

US$1500 would leave you heaps of change from the T5, and just about do the T56, which would be a much nicer (and more than strong enough) option, with a huge spares availability to boot.

Cheers,

Mick
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Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Cheers,

Mick
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Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Big Al Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 8:20:03 PM(UTC)
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I did think of the T56 Mick, would it just be a case of bellhousing to suit??
HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 8:29:31 PM(UTC)
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Plus massive tunnel mods to fit it.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
jim Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, 17 October 2009 8:48:44 PM(UTC)
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Byron , I have had a top loader and I do know that they are ford ,He didnt say anything about keeping it Original ,in fact said he didnt care about it,so a top loader is perfect for this,you can get full conversion kits fairly cheap,its just an option,that is what Hes asking about ,now He can go and think about which is better,same as the T5 option.People dont always want originality.also what you said ,some parts are quite rare,personally I would go the T5 as (Mick)commodorenut
said .

Jim in adelaide

Edited by user Saturday, 17 October 2009 8:57:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jim in Adelaide..
commodorenut Offline
#14 Posted : Sunday, 18 October 2009 3:05:09 AM(UTC)
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The T56 is a big mutha of a box, but the T5 is quite a bit more compact. Depends on how much work you want to do.
I spent a lot of time on the pros & cons, and went with the T5. There are a myriad of ratios & shifter positions, so I went with one that suits my cars shifter hole, and the ratios that I found desireable - 2.95:1 first, 1:1 4th, and 0.68:1 overdrive, which tie in nicely with a 3.45: diff, giving it nice easy off-the-line acceleration, and a cruising RPM of around 2000 at 110km/h.

I got mine from an F-body (Camaro/Firebird) wrecker in the US, for only a few hundred US$, and through a non-courier company, its now in a container, with other goods, and its under $100 shipping fee.

Dont get the aussie T5, they arent as good as the US ones from the same era - hence why I said "world class" box in my previous post - they have different synchros, that get rid of that notchy delay between shifts that the aussie T5s suffer. Sellers of the aussie T5s locally usually ask stupid money for them as well, so its simply not worth it compared to the better options you can get out of the US, for less money.
Youll find the World Class (WC) T5 used from about 87 onwards in the GM cars that had the SBC, and also in Mustangs (however the shifter position is a long way forward on the mustang box).

As far as bellhousings, Ive only explored the T5 ones (for both aussie & chev pattern blocks). VN-VS cast-iron V8s ran the T5 with a chev-pattern bellhousing, which would be the ideal swap for you.

My other option was a T56 onto an aussie-pattern 304. Using an LS1 T56, the input shaft is too long as it is, and the front of them dont lend themselves easily to a conversion. Heres an ebay auction showing the LS1 T56 bellhousing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebay...ewItem&item=380131791429

However, it can be done. I researched doing the LS1 T56 onto the aussie V8, which is a lot harder than what you want to do. To fit it to the aussie V8, I can use a T5/aussie pattern bellhousing (dellow or HDT), and use an adapter plate from the states like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebay...ewItem&item=360103050875

Keep that adapter plate in mind, as I will refer to it further down.

In your case, with a small block chev, you wont need the adapter, as you can get T56 bellhousings to suit SBC. Be careful though, as some of the yank T5 & T56 stuff mounts the gearbox on a lean, to angle the stick closer to the (left hand) driver.

Heres an ideal one for you - the right bellhousing & all, ready to bolt up:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebay...ewItem&item=150379606770

If you couldnt get a suitable SBC > T56 bellhousing, you could use the very common US GM SBC > T5 bellhousing (angled mount though) fitted to the 80s & 90s F-bodies, and couple it to that ebay adapter. This then lets you use an aussie LS1 T56. That adapter plate in the ebay link allows you to use the angled bellhousing as well, sitting the box back up straight if you use the alternate bolt holes. Alternatively, and SBC bellhousing for the muncie & T10 can be acccomodated by that plate from what the description says, so you have lots of options.




Cheers,

Mick
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Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Cheers,

Mick
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Judge a successful man not on how he treats his peers, but on how he treats those less fortunate.
Big Al Offline
#15 Posted : Sunday, 18 October 2009 8:48:13 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for everyones input!! Youre not making the decision any easier though haha!
jim Offline
#16 Posted : Sunday, 18 October 2009 5:41:55 PM(UTC)
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T400 easy enough! stage 2 kit 2500 stall convertor never breaks.(not a manual though)

Jim in adelaide

Edited by user Sunday, 18 October 2009 5:43:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jim in Adelaide..
HK1837 Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, 19 October 2009 6:17:29 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by jim
Byron , I have had a top loader and I do know that they are ford ,He didnt say anything about keeping it Original ,in fact said he didnt care about it,so a top loader is perfect for this,you can get full conversion kits fairly cheap,its just an option,that is what Hes asking about ,now He can go and think about which is better,same as the T5 option.People dont always want originality.also what you said ,some parts are quite rare,personally I would go the T5 as (Mick)commodorenut
said .

Jim in adelaide


Jim
I get what you meant, my point wasnt about originality, it was a Muncie doesnt require much in the way of mods to fit ie it can use factory GMH bits (tailshaft, speedo cable, crossmember). By the time you find an old toploader, rebuild it properly, change a tailshafts length to suit and make up a crossmember you will probably be close to $2,000, and you still have an old (but rebuilt) box that isnt as strong as a Muncie. Bellhousing, clutch, shifter will cost about the same for both, and often both require a small "hump" in the floor to clear the shifter.
Having said all that there is nothing wrong with a Toploader, it just doesnt make sense to me to use one in a HQ. The same mob that sells the new Muncies sells most bits for Toploaders too:

http://www.tbtrans.com/f...loader_4_speed_trans.htm

Also nothing wrong with a T5 if you want the car to be an everyday driver and be better at highway speeds.

I also thought this was interesting. An overdrive gearset for an M21 Muncie. Keeps 1st and 2nd the same (Muncie M21 is very tall 1st at 2.2:1) but moves 3rd to 1:1 and 4th to 0.87:1. So would allow you to run lower diff gears and still be comfortable on the street at cruising speeds. Basically gives you all the benefits of a 5spd without the really low 1st which you dont really need with a carbied 350 or bigger. All in a really tough box.

http://www.riversidegear...roducts/product-166.html

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
jim Offline
#18 Posted : Tuesday, 20 October 2009 2:42:45 AM(UTC)
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Byron, both boxes are about the same I think MUNCIES are great boxes too. TOPLOADERS won bathurst in nearly every car they were in.I like the idea of the shifter in the middle and the option of a 9 inch rear end(less mods on the tailshaft) but as you said an overdrive would be the way to go,especially with the prices of fuels,(I know its not every ones concern but it makes sense to me),but in saying all that I went T400 just for the ease of it all and then Ill gas it.All just opinions to mull around..jim PS.that gearing(o/drive)is $500..!(T5?..cheaper?)

Jim in Adelaide

Edited by user Tuesday, 20 October 2009 2:45:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jim in Adelaide..
HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Tuesday, 20 October 2009 2:55:38 AM(UTC)
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Agree on the TH400/3L80. You can get a 4spd version of that too (4L80E), but you can only have it in full manual shift or computer control.

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
jim Offline
#20 Posted : Tuesday, 20 October 2009 2:59:21 AM(UTC)
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They just cant make things simple can they!..lol

Jim in Adelaide
Jim in Adelaide..
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