monaro202, are the chev pumps the same? ive got 1 here and other then the pulley and the brackets they look the same

Hi Guys.

I was going to post earlier on this topic but time ran out. As most of you guys probably know, Ive been repairing power steer units now for well over 30 years, so I can give a quick summary of the different types of pumps on Holdens.

If we restrict our discussion to the pumps which have the metal reservoir attached (HQ-WB etc.) it will keep it simple.

The pumps you are talking about were made by the Saginaw Division of GM & have been around since the 1950s. With Holden pumps there were 3 basic types of this style.

1. Narrow neck filler & imperial threads (bolt-on pulley)
2. Narrow neck filler & imperial threads (pressed-on pulley)
3. Ham-can style reservoir & metric mounting threads

The 1 to 2 changeover was late HQ
The 2 to 3 changeover was 1980/81 (early-WB & mid-VC).
Apart for the pulley attachment, types 1 & 2 are interchangeable.
Apart from the mount bolts, types 2 & 3 are interchangeable.

The earliest ones were fitted to the EJ series but they werent really commonplace until HK, where they were standard on Broughams. The 6-cyl types were different for each model. they even had a slight change for the X2 engines. 253 & 308 in HT/G were different again & had a remote reservoir if the car also had a/cond. The 307 & 350 style were Chev types & were slightly different (again) in the reservoir. The differences were in pulley offset & diameter, return spout shape & canister position (rotationally).

All the pumps HJ to early WB are basically the same with the exception of the extra mount stud at the lower rear of the 6-cyl pumps (as Monaro202 has rightly pointed out). Early Commodores complicated this somewhat because they also use the same pump, but they also had an extra stud in the upper rear for V8. When I say same pump, apart from the extra stud, everything (housing, reservoir & pulley) is the same back to HJ.

When the new shape (ham cam) reservoir came out in VC/WB (then VH/VK/VL) they were made interchangeable except for their metric mount bolts. Bolt hole position, body casting & pulley remained unchanged.

VK 6-cyl (& some VC/VH) used a smaller looking pump with a remote reservoir but the internals remained the same. VN to VT V8 used a similar pump to VC to VL V8 but the pulley & reservoir were altered.

Dr Terry

It wouldnt bolt to my 308,it would leave the reservoir at a 45deg angle(practically emptying itself)..?what holes do you use, i tried to use the top two and bottom left looking straight at the head from the front of the car.PS Ill call you when i get a minute OK?

Jim in Adelaide

Edited by user Thursday, 12 November 2009 5:18:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

DAVE COMPARE THE ONE I SENT TO THE ONE IN THE BOTTOM PHOTO FOR ANGLES?PS sorry about caps,,,doh

Jim in Adelaide

Hi Guys.

A few more comments.

You often hear the term 6-cyl bracket or V8 bracket. In the case of the Holden 6-cyl (as seen in the above pics) it is not a bracket it is 2 brackets. The often missing rear support, which mounts the rear of the pump down to the RH engine mount always seems to get lost or forgotten. Most 6-cyl power steering conversions that I have had to fix are always missing the 2nd bracket. Many seem to think it doesnt matter, but if its not there it causes 2 problems. Firstly the pump will vibrate badly at certain RPM & the breather in the cap will just spew out fluid. It doesnt what you do it wont stop leaking until the rear bracket is fitted. Secondly, as a result of all this vibration, eventually the main (front) bracket will break. Not a good look.

Its the same with the various Chev pump mounts. Its not just one bracket, it is several brackets.

The comment above relating to the pump not sitting at the correct angle is what I was referring to by the reservoir rotation. Several years ago many cheap brand new pumps appeared at swap meets. These pumps were genuine Saginaw pumps, but they were Ford 6-cyl style. They were the same pump as the VC/WB metric Holden type except for the canister which was around 45 degrees different & may be the problem above.

Dr Terry

quote:

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Originally posted by jim
DAMN.HOW TO FIX?

Jim in Adelaide

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pretty simple fix really...buy the right pump from someone that knows what they are selling...

going to church makes you no more a christian than standing in a garage makes you a car...

www.classicozwreck.com.au

jim, i belive the mystery is solved, Dr Terry is correct, i recon you have a fraud pump

i have a pump in my shed off a EB falcon, so i got it out and it bolts up to the holden bracket just fine!!!

i then put it against the pump in my car and with the brackets lined up square against mine the pump lays over 45deg away from the engine!!

the ford pump is also the same shape as yours, (tear drop shape)

so i recon the doc is 100% right you have a fraud pump

hahaha, very true, keep the pump for a spare, other than the outside casing, the pulley and the threads being metric the rest is the same

this may help out, or just keep for reference. this is from the HQ Parts cat, it has the actual sizes in imperial for the spaces...



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